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harryenn
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grip - 01-13-2018, 05:38 PM

i was wondering if any of you could describe the grip you use. i seem to be changing mine constantly.
thank you
  
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One Pocket John
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01-14-2018, 05:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by harryenn View Post
i was wondering if any of you could describe the grip you use. i seem to be changing mine constantly.
thank you
I'm not an Instructor. Here is my take.

A grip is a firm, strong hold on something. A better word to use would be to HOLD the cue just tight enough to feel you have something in your hand.

Whatever holding of the cue you use it must allow for the forearm to close naturally (with absolutely no tension in the forearm) and pushing the cue straight thru the cue ball and out in front of you.

From a standing position with your arms at your side, look down at your hand. Notice how it is hanging. Is your thumb pointed in toward your body? Is your wrist pointed out slightly away from your body? Now close your forearm to your shoulder, look at your hand. Whatever way your hand is hanging that is YOUR natural hand position.

Now put a cue in your hand and feel the pressure points in your hand that the cue is touching. Always remember these pressure point feelings. This way you will always hold the cue the same way every time.

If you have the capabilities to video yourself on a long straight in shot, one frontal and one from the rear you'll get a good idea if and where there are any corrections that need to be made. Always have fun learning.

I recommend Bert Kinister's "Advanced Funddamentals" Vol. 11. A short video of this is on YouTube. This will get your body, shoulder and elbow aligned on the shot line so that you can naturally close your forearm on the shot line.

Fran Crimi (she is an Instructor and has helped me over the years) always has good advise, maybe she will chime in.

Have fun.

John


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St. Louis, MO.

I don't play One Pocket as much as I use to, but when I do, I play at Cue & Cushion - Overland, MO.

In Memory of Dean Higgs and Harry Sims - gone but not forgotten and thank you.

Last edited by One Pocket John; 01-14-2018 at 05:18 AM.
  
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01-14-2018, 06:23 AM

Not an instructor, but going between different cue sports, I want to suggest you keep in mind that your stance, stroke mechanics, and butt diameter/weight/balance, will affect how you want to grip. I have to grip a 19.5oz back-heavy cue a lot different than I grip my preferred forward-balanced light cues. A person with a drop-in stroke will want a different grip than a person with a linear snooker-ish stroke.

My general goal regardless is that I hold my hand so that the cue naturally follows my elbow's line without my wrist having to twist or flex through the stroke. That may sound obvious but when check yourself that your wrist/hand isn't pushing the cue and only swing from the elbow, you'll see that getting it perfect takes adjustment, as well as effort not to subconsciously flick your hand on the final stroke.

There are of course vastly different philosophies. Some people let the cue barely rest in their partly extended fingers. Some players grasp around the cue with their full hand or even control their cue power partly through their grip pressure. Some people do a lot with their wrist and hand to control the cue through the stroke. Other do not.

I personally tense my 1st and 2nd knuckles together, create a hook around the cue with my first two fingers and thumb. Like a rigid, snug cradle, with zero pressure pressing inward. My tendons on either side of my wrist flex from this and keep my wrist firm in the stroke which reinforces consistency. But like I said, your grip has to fit your stance and mechanics as well. I play from a snooker stance, this grip goes with my stance and mechanics. You'll have to develop yours to fit you.
  
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Scott Lee
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01-14-2018, 08:33 AM

It is far less important how you physically hold on to the cuestick, than how smooth the transition is from backswing to forward stroke. 99% of poolplayers think they have a "loose" (I prefer the term 'cradle') grip, but video analysis shows them cranking down on the cue when they change direction. This is why the transition is one of the most important aspects of your stroke. I teach 3 different methods to correct too tight of a grip. IMO the highest level of performance happens when you let the weight of the cue and timing create the speed of the stroke

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com


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FranCrimi
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01-14-2018, 04:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by harryenn View Post
i was wondering if any of you could describe the grip you use. i seem to be changing mine constantly.
thank you
Before I answer in a way that can help you personally, how about a little more information coming from you on your grip ---- like, what's going through your mind about gripping the cue and what types of grips are you trying ---- and how do they feel?


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01-15-2018, 01:31 AM

what goes through my mind sometimes when i miss a shot is that the grip felt awkward. the ones i use the most one similar to what one pocket john described, or one like that with my index finger off the cue.i don't like the orcullo grip which i think is index and middle finger only but it does seem to work for him.
  
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FranCrimi
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01-15-2018, 03:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by harryenn View Post
what goes through my mind sometimes when i miss a shot is that the grip felt awkward. the ones i use the most one similar to what one pocket john described, or one like that with my index finger off the cue.i don't like the orcullo grip which i think is index and middle finger only but it does seem to work for him.
Okay. Got it.

The grip is important because it's where you feel the shot. There is some feel in the bridge hand as well, but the main feel is in the grip. The grip should not impede the motion of the cue in any way. That is why I like the same grip you do, which is not with the thumb and index finger but with the middle to the back of the grip hand. But I do have my entire hand on the cue, including thumb, index finger and my pinkie, which is my anchor. It's a matter of where you place your emphasis.

However, don't forget that it's your arm that propels the cue stick into the cue ball, and not your hand. For the majority of shots, you want your grip hand to be passive on the cue stick --- no more than a receptor of feel. However, there are occasions when grip hand manipulation on the cue is necessary, as with certain power shots, like break shots or short power shots where you have to use your wrist to get power or you would double hit the cue ball, for example.

For now, try keeping your grip relaxed and sensitive but focus more on your arm swing. Things may fall into place for you that way.


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01-16-2018, 09:55 AM

I am working towards a pendulum stroke, insofar as I am still working on my stroke and other fundamentals. I wanted to relay what was going on with my grip and get some opinions.

If we consider the cue to be the x-axis, and the plane perpendicular to the x-axis and (fairly) parallel to the plane of the table to be the y-axis, then I can describe what i think is going on with my grip.
At address, I have a loose grip with all fingers closed on the cue. I mainly rely on my middle finger to "cradle" the cue. Upon takeback, I open my ring and pinky fingers (as some players do). Open and close as I take practice strokes.

What I feel is odd is that I believe there is some rotation in my hand in the x-y plane. To describe it better, it feels as if at full takeback my palm is facing towards the butt end of the cue (though not that extreme). So, at address, the palm is facing the cue itself, and at full takeback it is rotated towards the butt end.

My straight ins and stop shots work quite well doing this. Any comments would be appreciated.

Last edited by Lockbox; 01-16-2018 at 09:58 AM. Reason: spelling
  
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FranCrimi
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01-16-2018, 10:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockbox View Post
I am working towards a pendulum stroke, insofar as I am still working on my stroke and other fundamentals. I wanted to relay what was going on with my grip and get some opinions.

If we consider the cue to be the x-axis, and the plane perpendicular to the x-axis and (fairly) parallel to the plane of the table to be the y-axis, then I can describe what i think is going on with my grip.
At address, I have a loose grip with all fingers closed on the cue. I mainly rely on my middle finger to "cradle" the cue. Upon takeback, I open my ring and pinky fingers (as some players do). Open and close as I take practice strokes.

What I feel is odd is that I believe there is some rotation in my hand in the x-y plane. To describe it better, it feels as if at full takeback my palm is facing towards the butt end of the cue (though not that extreme). So, at address, the palm is facing the cue itself, and at full takeback it is rotated towards the butt end.

My straight ins and stop shots work quite well doing this. Any comments would be appreciated.
Well, if you're pocketing balls this way, then you must be rotating your hand back to it's originating point when the tip reaches impact with the cue ball. So whatever you're doing with your grip during the stroke --- you're finishing at the same position you started with at address.

And when you miss --- you may not quite be making it back to your original address position at impact.

That sure sounds like a lot of hard work to get back to where you started. The way I see it, you have two choices: 1) You can let the movement control you, or 2) You can take control of the movement.


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01-16-2018, 11:54 AM

Fran, I have a question similar to this. My stroke is smooth and I follow through correctly, well at least I think, and I cradle the cue but primarily use my index finger and my middle finger. As Scott mentioned above it’s also important to have a smooth transition forward. Sometimes I actually feel the cue sliding through my fingers on the forward stroke. Is this bad or a bad habit forming? I still stroke straight and pocket balls but I just want make sure I’m not doing something wrong here. Thanks , mike
  
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01-16-2018, 12:23 PM

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Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Well, if you're pocketing balls this way, then you must be rotating your hand back to it's originating point when the tip reaches impact with the cue ball. So whatever you're doing with your grip during the stroke --- you're finishing at the same position you started with at address.

And when you miss --- you may not quite be making it back to your original address position at impact.

That sure sounds like a lot of hard work to get back to where you started. The way I see it, you have two choices: 1) You can let the movement control you, or 2) You can take control of the movement.
Hi Fran. I appreciate the feedback. I have tried various different grips in the past and this seems to work the best so far. Sometimes, it is a little tough to figure out, say on a standard cut shot, whether my stroke wasn't straight, or whether my aim was just a little off.

My thoughts are that if you (and others) don't see this as a major flaw that needs to be corrected in order to progress in pool, I will just stick with it. My focus has been on just forming a repeatable straight stroke and so far this has fit the bill.
  
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01-16-2018, 12:49 PM

With the QMD3 Stroke Analyzer (www.cue-md.com) you can see any 'twist' you have and at what points during your stroke it occurs. This example shows a very slight counter-clockwise twist near the end of the forward stroke. Twist is very common and I've rarely seen anyone consistently without any. I shoot pretty average and in my strokes I typically twist slightly counter-clockwise on the backstroke, then clockwise on the forward stroke, returning to about where I started at contact with the cue ball. Is twist bad or not? Probably bad if excessive. I'm able to minimize the twist by using a light, cradle grip and focusing on maintaining an even grip throughout the stroke without clinching my grip hand.
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01-16-2018, 10:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockbox View Post
Hi Fran. I appreciate the feedback. I have tried various different grips in the past and this seems to work the best so far. Sometimes, it is a little tough to figure out, say on a standard cut shot, whether my stroke wasn't straight, or whether my aim was just a little off.

My thoughts are that if you (and others) don't see this as a major flaw that needs to be corrected in order to progress in pool, I will just stick with it. My focus has been on just forming a repeatable straight stroke and so far this has fit the bill.
Well, I think your grip hand is performing an unnecessary movement in your stroke. Grip changes are difficult because it's related to how you feel the shot, so it won't be easy, but I think you should adjust your grip to eliminate the unnecessary movement.


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FranCrimi
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01-16-2018, 10:32 PM

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Originally Posted by Mike81 View Post
Fran, I have a question similar to this. My stroke is smooth and I follow through correctly, well at least I think, and I cradle the cue but primarily use my index finger and my middle finger. As Scott mentioned above itís also important to have a smooth transition forward. Sometimes I actually feel the cue sliding through my fingers on the forward stroke. Is this bad or a bad habit forming? I still stroke straight and pocket balls but I just want make sure Iím not doing something wrong here. Thanks , mike
Hey Mike,

Players usually place their grip emphasis either on the thumb, index finger, and third finger together, or on the last three fingers together. Either grip can be used with a full fist on the cue. It's just a matter of where you place your emphasis.

I think it's a bit unstable for the grip pressure to be on the index and third fingers only. The cue sliding through your fingers isn't necessarily a bad thing, but there is potential for bad things to happen, such as causing you to not follow through properly on shots. These problems associated with the cue sliding start to creep up on you without your realizing it's happening, so be careful.

I think you should consider choosing one of the two grips I mentioned above rather than your current grip.


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01-20-2018, 02:57 AM

I agree 100% with Scott Lee's take on grip and stroke.... I personally rest the cue on top of my four fingers and then the cue leans against my thumb...... the thumb is just there to make sure the cue doesn't go anywhere..... and my wrist is fixed and hanging straight down. I pause at the back and try not to change anything when I go forward. I'm no Champion but I get as much action as I need and I hit the target as intended.... good to have so much knowledgeable instruction on AZ.
  
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