Chess clocks

kilby

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Following an idea from Bert Van Manen, I bought an inexpensive chess clock to see how it might speed up too-long games! Why didn't we discover these years ago? A brilliant solution to keeping a game moving, as well as a foolproof method to track innings (not to mention the stress of an expiring clock and too few billiards)! Thirty points in 45 minutes is a worthwhile challenge!:thumbup:
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Following an idea from Bert Van Manen, I bought an inexpensive chess clock to see how it might speed up too-long games! Why didn't we discover these years ago? A brilliant solution to keeping a game moving, as well as a foolproof method to track innings (not to mention the stress of an expiring clock and too few billiards)! Thirty points in 45 minutes is a worthwhile challenge!:thumbup:
I got some clocks for a 14.1 league and they did the job but they went through batteries like you wouldn't believe. What brand did you get? Any problems yet?
 

kilby

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob, I got the DGT North American, no problems whatsoever. Buy batteries from Costco -- Consumer Reports data shows them to be most cost effective.
 

jjacobson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm sure someone makes adapters for various battery configurations. Parts Express, perhaps? JJ
 

HomeBrewer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just ordered mine. Can't wait to see if I stand a chance on a 30 points / 45 minutes challenge.

Maybe this can be the 3 cushion 'ghost' ...
 

kilby

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One singular benefit, beyond simply speeding up the game, is there seems to be much less political chatter in the room....
 

HomeBrewer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My chess clock came in today. Now I just have to make 30 points in 45 minutes.

Gulp
 

HomeBrewer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
OK Ron, I have my clock.

Are you able to check next time you are near one and tell me please which mode/setting is in use and working for you guys?

I'm curious to know what the workflow is. Are you putting points up on beads and using the clock for timeout and inning count?

Thanks
 

billiardshot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Old Post by Bert van Manen - 03-23-2016

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=422343&highlight=Chess+clocks

From "The Blomdahl Era" - by Bert van Manen - 03-23-2016, 03:37 PM
The Belgians use a chess clock, and so should we all.

As Hitchcock said, the length of a movie must not be in conflict with the capacity of the human bladder. Two hours is a good limit for a 3-cushion match; upping the pace around the table will benefit us all. The senior citizen image of the sport is one of our main problems. Swift, spectacular, attacking 3-cushion in the top leagues and in the World Cups will appeal to the younger generation and bring in more spectators, possibly even new sponsors. We can’t inject our players with a dose of fast & furious, but at least our rules and formats should contain pepper, not valium.

In the mid-nineties, we introduced a shot clock. (If you are familiar with the subject, feel free to skip this paragraph). The type that has been used in the World Cups and in several European leagues in the past years, will count down the seconds a player has left to play the point, usually 40 or 50. The referee holds a little clicker which he uses to start the clock for player A, then switch it to player B once A has missed. Sometimes there’s a system that switches off the table lights if a player exceeds his time, in which case his opponent restarts with a break-off. Both players can call “time-outs”, usually two or three in a match. If all goes well, matches finish within 2 hours. Sounds good, problem solved? Or is there still an issue?

Here are a few REAL problems with the current clocks:
- They are an additional burden on the referee. The clicker is a distraction, and a forgotten “click” can cause all sorts of confusion and conflict.
- There is a lack of uniformity in the rules concerning their use. Number of seconds. Number of time-outs. Waiting for the adjacent table. The use of a fork or a cue extension.
- The clocks are notorious for malfunctioning. Different brands, different types: they all break down with disturbing frequency.
- They are – because of the small numbers - costly to make, VERY expensive to buy. I have never come across models cheaper than 500 euro, have seen several that cost twice that. It’s usually the room owners, many of them already struggling, who are forced to spend that money.

But this is the BIG one:

- Some players are still perceived as quick, and others as annoyingly slow! How can that be? I will tell you: some players use only the time they realistically NEED, and others use all the time they legally HAVE.

The clocks we have now, force us to use no more than 50 seconds. But they don’t encourage us to use only 25. If you play at a nice pace, there is no reward. If you use 49 seconds on every shot, there is no punishment. On the contrary: to break your opponent’s rhythm, you may want to keep him in the chair as long as possible. You are almost INVITED to use up time you don’t really need.

Is there a better system, a better clock? Yes there is, and it’s been around forever: the chess clock. The Belgians use it, with a very simple set of rules. Each player has an hour to make his 40 points, and you can use it as you see fit. If you miss, you walk to your seat and punch the clock. Your opponent’s time is now running. If your “flag” falls, you have lost the match, regardless of the score. That’s it. You want a second bathroom break? Sure, go ahead. But on your own time. Take 3 minutes on a ticky? Be my guest. That is not even irritating anymore, because you pay the price.

It sounds quite radical. Does it work? I have asked four Belgian top players, all active in different European leagues and experienced in World Cups, if they see any disadvantages to the chess clock.

Jef Philipoom: “I would prefer to not have clocks at all. But unfortunately, some players have made them inevitable. The chess clocks are much better than the Dutch clocks. You are responsible, and you can take time to think, when the position is difficult.”
Peter de Backer: “The only disadvantage I can think of, is that I sometimes forget to punch my clock.”
Peter Ceulemans: “I am totally in favor of the chess clock. A disadvantage? You could try to abuse it, if your opponent had very little time left: by playing and deliberately missing an amortized maximum spin shot, and punching the clock, leaving him to wait for the ball to stop spinning.” (clever point Peter, but I think every good referee will disallow that tactic. – BvM)
Eddy Leppens: “As an organizer, I love the chess clocks, because you can make a time schedule that is reliable. But I also prefer them as a player. As long as you don’t waste time on easier shots, you never feel rushed when the position is difficult.”
That is the verdict, from the only group of players (I know of) who have experience with both types of clocks. It sounds pretty unanimous to me. No, I have not bothered to ask Caudron; he thinks 50 seconds is a run of seven.
Current clocks Chess clocks
… …
500 euro and more 35 - 70 euro
… …
adds a task to the referee adds a task to the player
… ...
frequent malfunctions reliable
… …
invites slow play on easy shots invites faster play on easy shots
… …
slow play can cost you an inning slow play can cost you the match
… …
annoying 10 sec left signal audible soft ticking
… …
no reward for quick play quick play is rewarded

I am very serious about making a case for the chess clock, because I agree with the Belgians: it is superior to the Dutch and World Cup clocks. We can save money, AND make our sport better. Not in a drastic, but still in a meaningful way. If you agree, feel free to share this column on your wall, or anywhere else. It will take just a minimal effort to convince audiences, tournament organizers and room owners that the chess clock is an improvement. A few players may be hesitant at first, but I refer them to the expert opinions of the Belgian quartet above. The actual decision makers may prove to be the toughest group to get on board for this plan: (Con)federation officials traditionally don’t like changes of any kind. It could take a lot of words coming from a lot of mouths, to convince the blue blazers. But I’m going to give it a try.


Others Thread on chess/shot clocks

http://forums.azbilliards.com/search.php?searchid=19796396
 

kilby

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We use the clocks for time and innings, points go on the string I use the #2 setting. Regarding when you punch the clock -- your inning is over when the balls stop moving, so a spinning ball is still on your time.
 
Last edited:

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
We use the clocks for time and innings, points go on the string I use the #2 setting. Regarding when you punch the clock -- your inning is over when the balls stop moving, so a spinning ball is still on your time.

One positive that Bert forgot for the chess clock: it gets the player back to his chair so he doesn't stand by the table when he misses, pleading with the carom gods, cursing his bad luck, remeasuring all the angles, ....
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Bob, I got the DGT North American, no problems whatsoever. Buy batteries from Costco -- Consumer Reports data shows them to be most cost effective.

I just ordered this through Amazon. It was $40 including shipping. That's a pretty good price for a chess clock.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
We use the clocks for time and innings, points go on the string I use the #2 setting. Regarding when you punch the clock -- your inning is over when the balls stop moving, so a spinning ball is still on your time.
One other rule is that if the shooter is obstructed by the neighboring players, you need to pause the clock. Does the DGT handle the pause OK as far as innings go?
 

HomeBrewer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll test tonight on mine if we don't hear back from Ron on it. Anxious to get mine running.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I just got my DGT North American clock. It is much easier to use than some others I've seen. It looks like the battery drain is very low with a stated battery life of 10 years. It remembers settings through power cycles.

I like mode 20 which has a delay at the start of each inning. That's perhaps more important in pool games where there can be prolonged safety battles, but it also allows the player to get to the table. It's settable from a second to minutes. 20 seconds is about right for pool.
 
Top