Cloth stretch index.

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
I use staples on wood backed slates. I use the Simonis installation method and get it as tight as it should be.

I use the glue down method on Diamond tables because the slates are not wood backed ( older red/ black label Professional tables do have wood backers ) and get it as tight as it should be.

Indexing properly is required for either method. I think either method can result in a quality installation. :)

Trent from Toledo
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
p.s. in fact, the Simonis Installation DVDS show the staple method :) Jay does a great job of demonstrating it and I also have seen him in action live!
 

Chappa

New member
On a 9ft, i stretch the cloth 1 3/4" side to side, starting at the side pockets, stretching towards the ends at the same time. And trust me, no one in this business installs the cloth tighter than i do.
Realkingcobra ... If you have a working stretch of 1 3/4" side to side can you tell me what the measurements for the side pockets would be to allow enough to work with and are they the same on both the anchor side and the stretch to side ? or are the measurements on the side pockets to allow for slack always the same regardless of the side to side working stretch ? 9' Diamond 860HR !! Thank you
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Realkingcobra ... If you have a working stretch of 1 3/4" side to side can you tell me what the measurements for the side pockets would be to allow enough to work with and are they the same on both the anchor side and the stretch to side ? or are the measurements on the side pockets to allow for slack always the same regardless of the side to side working stretch ? 9' Diamond 860HR !! Thank you
The anchor side pocket is 13/16" inch both sides, the stretch to side pocket is 5/8" inch both sides. This only applies to full radius pocket shelfs. Bar table slates are half stretch reduced both sides.
 

EL Picos

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And the others measures to strech side to corner on 9 ft, please:)
 

Attachments

  • Opera Instantané_2023-07-31_033203_www.youtube.com.png
    Opera Instantané_2023-07-31_033203_www.youtube.com.png
    417.9 KB · Views: 66

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
And the others measures to strech side to corner on 9 ft, please:)
There is no correct measurement for what you're asking. Reason being, that stretch varies from bolt to bolt of cloth, based on the weave of the cloth, and humidity in the air. The correct stretch however, is to stretch that section of the cloth, until there is no more stretch to pull, BUT not to the point of pulling your anchor loose, so only stretch until there is NO more movement of the section of the cloth you're stretching.
 

Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
so you measure a stretch at the short rail but from side to corner pocket use max stretch?
Glen does this by feel, I like to actually mark it on the cloth. Whatever my index is, I make my line stop exactly that far from the edge of the corner pocket I'm stretching to.
I do the same in the other direction, except even with the edge of the pocket on the anchor side.
 

EL Picos

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Glen does this by feel, I like to actually mark it on the cloth. Whatever my index is, I make my line stop exactly that far from the edge of the corner pocket I'm stretching to.
I do the same in the other direction, except even with the edge of the pocket on the anchor side.
Ok and what's your measure for 9 feet and/or what's your % stretching index vs the maximum strech, for a non top experimented guy that can be useful!
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Glen does this by feel, I like to actually mark it on the cloth. Whatever my index is, I make my line stop exactly that far from the edge of the corner pocket I'm stretching to.
I do the same in the other direction, except even with the edge of the pocket on the anchor side.
The only drawback to per-measuring the stretch from side pocket to corner pocket is that green has less stretch than blue, and end to end stretch, which is what that is, varies from bolt to bolt. What don't change, and what is predictable, is the max stretch as in no more elasticity left to pull, between the side pocket and the corner pocket.
 

EL Picos

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is no correct measurement for what you're asking. Reason being, that stretch varies from bolt to bolt of cloth, based on the weave of the cloth, and humidity in the air. The correct stretch however, is to stretch that section of the cloth, until there is no more stretch to pull, BUT not to the point of pulling your anchor loose, so only stretch until there is NO more movement of the section of the cloth you're stretching.
For the same stretch tension will there be different length between the anchor and the stretch side from the side to the corner, on the picture the stretch side have 1/2 inch more than the anchor side for a short table, are they stretched at approximately the same tension?
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
For the same stretch tension will there be different length between the anchor and the stretch side from the side to the corner, on the picture the stretch side have 1/2 inch more than the anchor side for a short table, are they stretched at approximately the same tension?
Different size tables means a different stretch index per the same cloth. Here's an example, a 7ft Diamond slate is 47" wide, I use a 1 3/8" stretch. 1 3/8 = 1.375÷47"= that is .029 inches of cloth stretch per 1" of slate width. Now, knowing Simonis 860HR has .029 stretch per inch, a 9ft slate is 57" wide, so take 57" × .029 = 1.65 inches of stretch across the 57" wide slate. Keep in mind, the only difference in the width of a 7ft vs a 9ft, is 10" inches more in the width of the cloth! How much do you really think you're going to stretch that 10", another 1" because it's a 9ft??
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
So, here's what you need to commit to memory. For Simonis Tour Blue 860HR, times the width if the slate you're working on by .029" stretch per inch, and there's your stretch index!
 

EL Picos

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Different size tables means a different stretch index per the same cloth. Here's an example, a 7ft Diamond slate is 47" wide, I use a 1 3/8" stretch. 1 3/8 = 1.375÷47"= that is .029 inches of cloth stretch per 1" of slate width. Now, knowing Simonis 860HR has .029 stretch per inch, a 9ft slate is 57" wide, so take 57" × .029 = 1.65 inches of stretch across the 57" wide slate. Keep in mind, the only difference in the width of a 7ft vs a 9ft, is 10" inches more in the width of the cloth! How much do you really think you're going to stretch that 10", another 1" because it's a 9ft??
No no, I was just wondering why there was a difference in length and perhaps tension between the anchor side and the stretch side, no more. I'm going to do what you're going to tell me to do, that's for sure, here our cloths are all green and they are 860, should I do the maximum strect - 3/4 or is there an index to the inch like the 860HR blue?

Thank You for your help!

Icône de traduction vérifiée par la communauté
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
No no, I was just wondering why there was a difference in length and perhaps tension between the anchor side and the stretch side, no more. I'm going to do what you're going to tell me to do, that's for sure, here our cloths are all green and they are 860, should I do the maximum strect - 3/4 or is there an index to the inch like the 860HR blue?

Thank You for your help!

View attachment 738906
No no, I was just wondering why there was a difference in length and perhaps tension between the anchor side and the stretch side, no more. I'm going to do what you're going to tell me to do, that's for sure, here our cloths are all green and they are 860, should I do the maximum strect - 3/4 or is there an index to the inch like the 860HR blue?

Thank You for your help!

View attachment 738906
Green 860HR is a 1/8" less stretch than the blue, so .027 stretch per inch of width of slate.
 
Top