Fiber vs plastics vs phenolics- Clarification

Chopdoc

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can you clarify these terms for me?

I see various different materials talked about, especially for joint collars and ferrules, that ultimately I think are simply different kinds of plastics, but I feel confident there is more to it than that. Obviously there are different kinds of plastics with a large variety of characteristics. What categories are there? Or is there some other thing I should know.

When we see the term "fiber ferrule" what the heck does that mean? Fiber?

I think I understand what phenolics are. Different kinds of textiles or fibers embedded in a resin. Right?

As in many things I think it is likely these terms have been misused occasionally and perhaps that contributes to my poor understanding.

I am not thinking of making anything. I just want to understand what people are talking about.

Sometimes materials have proprietary names and something will be mentioned about what type of material it is and I am not sure what it means. I think very often these are different types of "platics". But that term feels too vague and I feel there is something missing in my understanding.


Thanks for any help. :smile:



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JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Fiber is compressed paper.
The original fiber ferrule burned to the ground, iirc.
Fiber ferrules were the choice of ferrules for house cues b/c they were cheap and relatively durable. But, they absorbed chalk easily.
The fiber ferrules I've seen lately are more like cheap plastic than fiber.

Linen and canvas phenolics are used as break tips/ferrule.
Hard and heavy. Neither one is white.

Pls don't ask how to slab fiber next .
Or what Fiber-X is made of.
Or if super glue finish sticks to them.
 
P

PoppaSaun

Banned
Plastic is basically all-encompassing and very generic. Basically all ferrule materials are plastics.

Fiber, when talking about plastics generally refers to plastics which utilize a fibrous filler to increase strength and stiffness. Hence, the 787 is a 'plastic' bodied plane. The plane is made from CFRP, which refers to 'carbon fiber reinforced plastic'.

Fibers change the properties of the composite plastic material depending on what material the fiber is made from, the directions of the fibers, whether the fiber is woven and how much fiber vs. resin is in the mix.

Phenolics are specifically plastics derived from organic and inorganic phenols. Phenolics may or may not be reinforced by different fillers. These fillers can be powders, sheets or fibers. The 'sheets' is generally a misnomer because the sheets are mostly made of fibers.

This just barely scrapes the surface of plastics. I haven't seen much very good information on this site.
 
L

louieatienza

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
PoppaSaun said:
Plastic is basically all-encompassing and very generic. Basically all ferrule materials are plastics.

Fiber, when talking about plastics generally refers to plastics which utilize a fibrous filler to increase strength and stiffness. Hence, the 787 is a 'plastic' bodied plane. The plane is made from CFRP, which refers to 'carbon fiber reinforced plastic'.

Fibers change the properties of the composite plastic material depending on what material the fiber is made from, the directions of the fibers, whether the fiber is woven and how much fiber vs. resin is in the mix.

Phenolics are specifically plastics derived from organic and inorganic phenols. Phenolics may or may not be reinforced by different fillers. These fillers can be powders, sheets or fibers. The 'sheets' is generally a misnomer because the sheets are mostly made of fibers.

This just barely scrapes the surface of plastics. I haven't seen much very good information on this site.
Click to expand...

I've cut a lot of phenolic sheet, ranging from paper based, to cotton, and fiberglass. And the fiberglass stuff (G10/FR4) is absolutely horrendous. I must have cut thousands of intake manifold risers for import cars for a speed shop; a nice two year run of parts. The paper based stuff I use a lot for jigs and fixtures (good for vacuum fixturing), and black for fretboards, nuts, and saddles. Great spoilboard material if you're well-heeled. Still have a few sheets of black cotton based (TUFNOL) and some unknown brown MIL-spec G10 laying around... I had so much of this stuff I made a few CNCs out of them.
 
A

Alan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Doc,
Chris Hightower's "From Tree, To Tip, To Trade Show!" has some good text about materials found in cues. It also does a good job of explaining the construction of cues. If you can find a copy of it, it's a good read and reference book.

Alan
 
G

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tomahwk???

Where does this material fall in? Just got a new Schmelke shaft with it and it really hits good and is also easy to keep clean.
 
Cornerman

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
Chopdoc said:
Can you clarify these terms for me?

I see various different materials talked about, especially for joint collars and ferrules, that ultimately I think are simply different kinds of plastics, but I feel confident there is more to it than that. Obviously there are different kinds of plastics with a large variety of characteristics. What categories are there? Or is there some other thing I should know.

When we see the term "fiber ferrule" what the heck does that mean? Fiber?

I think I understand what phenolics are. Different kinds of textiles or fibers embedded in a resin. Right?

As in many things I think it is likely these terms have been misused occasionally and perhaps that contributes to my poor understanding.

I am not thinking of making anything. I just want to understand what people are talking about.

Sometimes materials have proprietary names and something will be mentioned about what type of material it is and I am not sure what it means. I think very often these are different types of "platics". But that term feels too vague and I feel there is something missing in my understanding.


Thanks for any help. :smile:



.
Click to expand...
Even though plastic is my business, anything I say will just add confusion. LOL!

Plastic includes thermoplastics (those that melt) and thermosets (those that don't). When discussing cue material, "plastics" are normally thermoplastic like polycarbonate, ABS, Nylon, Delrin.

Thermosets cannot remelt. Phenolic are a group of thermosets that are specifically made from phenol and formaldehyde, reinforced with some kind of material like fibers of cotton, linen, or glass.

There are several types of thermosets apart from phenolics.

When someone says "fiber," it almost never means fiber-reinforced thermoplastic, and normally some fiber-reinforced thermoset.
 
Chopdoc

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks guys.

I think I have a better grip on the matter. Still some things to look into but between the suggested resources and basic explanations provided I think I'm good.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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j2pac

j2pac

Marital Slow Learner.
Staff member
Moderator
Gold Member
Silver Member
Chopdoc said:
Can you clarify these terms for me?

I see various different materials talked about, especially for joint collars and ferrules, that ultimately I think are simply different kinds of plastics, but I feel confident there is more to it than that. Obviously there are different kinds of plastics with a large variety of characteristics. What categories are there? Or is there some other thing I should know.

When we see the term "fiber ferrule" what the heck does that mean? Fiber?

I think I understand what phenolics are. Different kinds of textiles or fibers embedded in a resin. Right?

As in many things I think it is likely these terms have been misused occasionally and perhaps that contributes to my poor understanding.

I am not thinking of making anything. I just want to understand what people are talking about.

Sometimes materials have proprietary names and something will be mentioned about what type of material it is and I am not sure what it means. I think very often these are different types of "platics". But that term feels too vague and I feel there is something missing in my understanding.


Thanks for any help. :smile:



.
Click to expand...

PM sent Doc. :cool:
 
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