"Reverse" break

Fastolfe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Today, this situation came up: the break ball was hanging by a side pocket, my opponent racked the balls, and I noticed the 11 wasn't quite frozen to any of the balls around it in the rack (common with our crummy racks at the club), so I played this:

CueTable Help



I played hard and "dry", and center ball. I figured:

- if I hit the break ball dead on, playing hard would prevent the cueball from rolling into the pocket,
- if I hit the break ball slightly off center, the cueball would go up table or stay behind the footline, depending which side of the break ball it hit,
- if I really missed, I'd still have a chance to get the break ball doing a rail first,
- the rack would be busted enough that I most likely would have a shot after the break. But I'd have a fair chance of scratching if the cueball goes flying around the table, and if I missed, my opponent would have a field day.

As it turned out, the cueball stopped dead in front of the pocket, the break was spectacular, and a playable ball ended up near the opposite side pocket.

Did I get lucky, or is this something I can do intelligently if the situation arises again?
 

stevekur1

The "COMMISH"
Silver Member
To be honest with you, i wouldnt play it. too many things can go wrong !

A. you could follow the object ball right in
B. you get hooked by the corner of the pocket and not have a shot after
C. not very good odds of having a decent shot unless you like shooting from inside the pocket.
D. and most importanly you can miss it, and let your opponent have a field day on an open rack.

i would just either pocket it while calling safe and draw down table, or pocket it and play a safe freezing the cueball to the side of the rack.

it would depend on the score of the game on how i would play the 2 safe options !

Steve
 

dmgwalsh

Straight Pool Fanatic
Silver Member
To be honest with you, i wouldnt play it. too many things can go wrong !

A. you could follow the object ball right in
B. you get hooked by the corner of the pocket and not have a shot after
C. not very good odds of having a decent shot unless you like shooting from inside the pocket.
D. and most importanly you can miss it, and let your opponent have a field day on an open rack.

i would just either pocket it while calling safe and draw down table, or pocket it and play a safe freezing the cueball to the side of the rack.

it would depend on the score of the game on how i would play the 2 safe options !

Steve

Or cut it in and use low right to hit the bottom of the rack and out.
 

stevekur1

The "COMMISH"
Silver Member
I am not a big fan of drawing into the bottom of the rack, because at the speed the cue hits the rack you are ot going to get much. Besides you will be pushing balls up table while you are staying down table.

and quite possibly scratching off the bottom of the rack, there are for starters 5 balls in the back of the rack you can scratch off of. to many variables for me..

i say Duck !
Steve
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... Did I get lucky, or is this something I can do intelligently if the situation arises again?
Playing a carom to a break ball like this is a standard but rare play.

As far as ducking, I think I'd rather play either the carom or the draw-to-the-back. Any time you have to choose between a shot to continue the run that is better than 50% or a mediocre safety, take the run. You're only 50% to win the safety battle if relatively evenly matched.
 

stevekur1

The "COMMISH"
Silver Member
Good Point Bob, i really feel that dependng on the game situation.

if it is a close tight game and close to the end i would rather call safe on the shot and put him all the way down table, to let him try to thin the rack without leaving a shot !!

Steve
 

dmgwalsh

Straight Pool Fanatic
Silver Member
Good Point Bob, i really feel that dependng on the game situation.

if it is a close tight game and close to the end i would rather call safe on the shot and put him all the way down table, to let him try to thin the rack without leaving a shot !!

Steve

I know I'd go for it every time using my shot.

Maybe that's why I lose so much.:D
 

Fastolfe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, when I played that, I was way ahead, and also in "how can I lose" mode :) At that particular moment, I could have called and made just about any silly shot.

I'll reserve that for times when I need to save my bacon then.

I have an additional question if I may: I am correct in thinking it wouldn't have worked if the 11 had been frozen in the rack? Then the cueball would have hit not a single ball of similar mass, but a ball with the inertia several balls behind it, and the cueball would have glanced off at an unpredictable angle, right?
 

elvicash

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know I'd go for it every time using my shot.

Maybe that's why I lose so much.:D

Dennis if your suggestion does not work you can always sip a testy beverage while your opponent deals with the results. I suggest Sam Adams for the discerning 14.1 advocate.
 

sausage

Banned
i agree with bob. if you can win with a break shot and lose by playing safe, take the break shot if you are reasonably certain of making the ball. scratching on the break is a constant threat but sometimes you just have to go for it. there's no glory in being timid.
 

rikdee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have an additional question if I may: I am correct in thinking it wouldn't have worked if the 11 had been frozen in the rack? Then the cueball would have hit not a single ball of similar mass, but a ball with the inertia several balls behind it, and the cueball would have glanced off at an unpredictable angle, right?[/QUOTE]

No, a carom is on regardless of whether the 11 is frozen. The hit on the 11might vary, but the shot is essentially on.
 

Steve Lipsky

On quest for perfect 14.1
Silver Member
I'm going to set it up tomorrow (along with another interesting shot I may post over the weekend), and see what I can do.

Right now, my strong inclination is that the low right should work. I also want to make sure that when some of you are saying "draw into the rack" you mean ball, short rail, rack - and not just ball, rack. Right?

- Steve
 

dmgwalsh

Straight Pool Fanatic
Silver Member
I'm going to set it up tomorrow (along with another interesting shot I may post over the weekend), and see what I can do.

Right now, my strong inclination is that the low right should work. I also want to make sure that when some of you are saying "draw into the rack" you mean ball, short rail, rack - and not just ball, rack. Right?

- Steve

Steve: I meant ball, short rail, rack, probably followed by long rail and out to the middle.
 

3andstop

Focus
Silver Member
I like using the short rail also, but .... not so much draw. You must hit the ball a tad below center, but too much draw will turn into follow and eat itself into the rack. I rather use a ton of outside english and just a tickle (half tip) below center. Level stroke and very smooth follow through. But that's just me. :)
 

stevekur1

The "COMMISH"
Silver Member
if i were to try the drawshot into the rack i dont think that low right to bring you out to the middle.

most of the time the carom angle off the rack is going to bring you low. so i would think if anything Low Left to go 2 or 3 rails around the back of the rack.
Now that would raise a problem with the low left when using the rail after pocketing the ball in the pocket since the cue ball would stiffen up and probably not even hit the rack.

Just My .02
Steve
 

stevekur1

The "COMMISH"
Silver Member
sorry for the mix up, my memory served me wrong. after looking at the rack layout again i recant about what i said about drawing into the back of the rack with left hand juice !!!!

i am gonna play around with the shot this weekend, i will update with my results.

Steve
 

Rich R.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
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alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I will try this shot and see what happens.I do want to point out that I did not say power draw.Some times,like this shot ,less draw is better! With power draw the cue-ball would probably bury in the stack-while a easier
hit allow the cue-ball to hit and bounce away.Just my 2cents.Remember they don't call me "Crazy" for nothing. Jack:D
 

Rich R.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I will try this shot and see what happens.I do want to point out that I did not say power draw.Some times,like this shot ,less draw is better! With power draw the cue-ball would probably bury in the stack-while a easier
hit allow the cue-ball to hit and bounce away.Just my 2cents.Remember they don't call me "Crazy" for nothing. Jack:D

I'm assuming, which is dangerous, that you would need at least a moderate amount of power on the draw to get the rack to spread as you have shown. Burying the cue ball in the stack would depend more on where you hit the stack rather than how hard, IMHO.
I'll be interested in the results from your test.
 
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