GC III rail bolt problem

nine o nine

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Was checking rail bolt torque on my GC III and found that one bolt feels galled. It'll neither tighten nor loosen and feels as though if forced it'll snap. What should I do??? It's good and snug so there's no need to take it apart until the next cloth replacement. Mitch
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Was checking rail bolt torque on my GC III and found that one bolt feels galled. It'll neither tighten nor loosen and feels as though if forced it'll snap. What should I do??? It's good and snug so there's no need to take it apart until the next cloth replacement. Mitch
Leave it alone until the table has to come apart then drill the head of the bolt off.
 

ROB.M

:)
Silver Member
Table

Leave it alone until the table has to come apart then drill the head of the bolt off.

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You’ll have a heck of a time if your not familiar with the repair, I once told a guy to do the same thing glen suggest to you. He got metal shavings in his eye and had to have a operation on his eye ball due to hot metal savings falling on his face as he lay on his back looking up to drill bolt head....(
If your going to drill the bolt head at least wear safety glasses and a face shield....)

If the bolt feels is going to snap, snap it off... your going to have the rest of the bolt in the rail reguardless<~this is going to be your issue, it’s no easy task for someone who’s not familiar with that type of repair/extracting the broken bolt that’s captured in the mortise...


Rob.M
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
-

You’ll have a heck of a time if your not familiar with the repair, I once told a guy to do the same thing glen suggest to you. He got metal shavings in his eye and had to have a operation on his eye ball due to hot metal savings falling on his face as he lay on his back looking up to drill bolt head....(
If your going to drill the bolt head at least wear safety glasses and a face shield....)

If the bolt feels is going to snap, snap it off... your going to have the rest of the bolt in the rail reguardless<~this is going to be your issue, it’s no easy task for someone who’s not familiar with that type of repair/extracting the broken bolt that’s captured in the mortise...


Rob.M

Use a 9/16" socket to cover the bolt head, hold it with vice grips, drill the head of the bolt through the center of the socket, no metal shavings flying all over, pop the head of the bolt off, then remove the rail. With the rail upside down and the shank of the bolt sticking out, you have something for the vice grips to get a hold of, then drip a drop of cutting thread oil down the shank of the bolt. Once thats done, try tightening the bolt first, then loosen it, work it back and forth, if it's going to come out, it'll come out then, if not then it'll break off at the threads. If it breaks off, not a big deal. Strip the cloth off the rail, you're going to have the table recovered anyway. Pull the cushion loose from the bottom of the rail enough so that you can get into the cavity where the nut plate is. The bolt is not going to be broke off flush to the anchor nut, so in order to remove it you're going to have to cut off the protruding shank, do that with a metal cutting blade on a Dremel power tool. Slide the blade between the wood and the nut, cut the shank of the bolt off, then remove the anchor nut. Replace it with a new one, or drill the old one out and re-tap the threads, then replace it, repair done.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Use a 9/16" socket to cover the bolt head, hold it with vice grips, drill the head of the bolt through the center of the socket, no metal shavings flying all over, pop the head of the bolt off, then remove the rail. With the rail upside down and the shank of the bolt sticking out, you have something for the vice grips to get a hold of, then drip a drop of cutting thread oil down the shank of the bolt. Once thats done, try tightening the bolt first, then loosen it, work it back and forth, if it's going to come out, it'll come out then, if not then it'll break off at the threads. If it breaks off, not a big deal. Strip the cloth off the rail, you're going to have the table recovered anyway. Pull the cushion loose from the bottom of the rail enough so that you can get into the cavity where the nut plate is. The bolt is not going to be broke off flush to the anchor nut, so in order to remove it you're going to have to cut off the protruding shank, do that with a metal cutting blade on a Dremel power tool. Slide the blade between the wood and the nut, cut the shank of the bolt off, then remove the anchor nut. Replace it with a new one, or drill the old one out and re-tap the threads, then replace it, repair done.

I was taking the rails off of my GC3 one time and the same thing happened. The bolt seized in the anchor nut and the nut started spinning in the rail. It was an end bolt by a corner pocket. I pulled the feather strip out with the cloth and pulled the rubber off exposing the nut pocket. I grabbed a hack saw blade with a vice grips and slid it in under the nut and sawed the bolt off flush with the bottom side of the nut using the vice grips as a handle for the blade. You have to take all this apart eventually anyway to fix the nut and it's pretty safe and easy to cut it off like this from up top where you can see what you're doing and it's all still held solidly. Having drilled out many a bolt in my day from the head, this was easier. It turned out to be way less of a problem than I expected. I use a light coat of anti seize on these bolts now.

JC
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I was taking the rails off of my GC3 one time and the same thing happened. The bolt seized in the anchor nut and the nut started spinning in the rail. It was an end bolt by a corner pocket. I pulled the feather strip out with the cloth and pulled the rubber off exposing the nut pocket. I grabbed a hack saw blade with a vice grips and slid it in under the nut and sawed the bolt off flush with the bottom side of the nut using the vice grips as a handle for the blade. You have to take all this apart eventually anyway to fix the nut and it's pretty safe and easy to cut it off like this from up top where you can see what you're doing and it's all still held solidly. Having drilled out many a bolt in my day from the head, this was easier. It turned out to be way less of a problem than I expected. I use a light coat of anti seize on these bolts now.

JC

Cutting the bolt with a hacksaw blade to take it off the slate still don't make it any easier to get the anchor nut out of the cavity inside the rail as the cut off bolt stud is flush to the bottom of the rail, but still sticking up inside the rail above the nut and blocks the removal of the nut.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Cutting the bolt with a hacksaw blade to take it off the slate still don't make it any easier to get the anchor nut out of the cavity inside the rail as the cut off bolt stud is flush to the bottom of the rail, but still sticking up inside the rail above the nut and blocks the removal of the nut.

It's been a few years but I believe I cut the top off first and then the bottom. My bolt had turned a turn coming out before it seized so I had some up and down play to work with. I remember thinking it was going to be a pain in the ass but once I had the pocket exposed it went really quick with a new blade. I recall I drilled out the nut and retapped it to 10mmx1.5 and put it back in the pocket.

Later I sent the rail to Donny as a trade in for some others he had rebuilt probably as you taught him to.:grin: Wonder if he notice the 10mm nut? This was about 8 years ago I think. Way before I fully understood how much I don't know. Nothing like a week or so with you Glen to make a guy humble.

Almost time for you to recover my table and my son needs my old GC3 straightened out. Some idiot set it up for him (me):rotflmao:

Merry Christmas Buddy!

JC
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
I never looked very closely at the rail bolts on my GCI, are they unhardened bolts?? They really shouldnt be seizing as long as they are not cross threaded if they are a Grade 5 bolt since they are not exposed to the elements. I could definitely see a "butter bolt" seizing up though. It might be a good idea to replace all of the rail bolts with Grade 5 hardware before putting your tables together in the future. bolts.JPG
 
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realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I never looked very closely at the rail bolts on my GCI, are they unhardened bolts?? They really shouldnt be seizing as long as they are not cross threaded if they are a Grade 5 bolt since they are not exposed to the elements. I could definitely see a "butter bolt" seizing up though. It might be a good idea to replace all of the rail bolts with Grade 5 hardware before putting your tables together in the future.View attachment 478417

The problem is not really with the bolts, it's the tightening of the bolts in a 1/4" thick anchor nut. All that over tightening is being beld on by 3 threads in a nut, threads stretch, then won't match to the threads in the nut anymore.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
The problem is not really with the bolts, it's the tightening of the bolts in a 1/4" thick anchor nut. All that over tightening is being beld on by 3 threads in a nut, threads stretch, then won't match to the threads in the nut anymore.

OK, I understand.
 

mchnhed

I Came, I Shot, I Choked
Silver Member
Actually the main reason is the dry assembly of threaded parts.

A grease, anti-seize or oil should always be used on threaded parts.

Never dry assemble threaded parts.

I agree that thicker plates should have been used.

RKC... what would be the thickest plate that could be placed in that space?

The problem is not really with the bolts, it's the tightening of the bolts in a 1/4" thick anchor nut. All that over tightening is being beld on by 3 threads in a nut, threads stretch, then won't match to the threads in the nut anymore.
 
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ROB.M

:)
Silver Member
Nut plate

I came across a GC III that had the flimsy nut plates.... this type strips out like no other....those had to go~>

Rob.M
 

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realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Actually the main reason is the dry assembly of threaded parts.

A grease, anti-seize or oil should always be used on threaded parts.

Never dry assemble threaded parts.

I agree that thicker plates should have been used.

RKC... what would be the thickest plate that could be placed in that space?

No nut plate is hack proof, the problem is using impact drivers instead of a normal drill. When using an impact driver, i can break loose the lugnuts on my trailer, what chance does a 3/8"ths bolt threaded into a 1/4" nut plate have of NOT being abused? The bolts don't need to be greased or oiled, they just need to NOT be over tightened!!
 

D-railed

New member
I had the same problem when i got my table, it would be much better to drill the head off so you still had a shank sticking out the bottom of the rail . I had 5 or 6 snapped off by who ever was there before me, snapped all the way down inside the rail. so its a good thing I was doing new cushions as well because those had to come off so i could get those nuts out using a ground down saws all blade to slide under the nut and cut the rest of the bolt off just to get the nuts out. Went ahead and made new nuts all the way around out of slightly thicker stock and used new bolts and a little
anti-seize (probably not needed, just a little gun shy).
taking it apart now because we are moving and it went swimmingly.
I used a wood putty instead of the the retaining staples that were in there to hold the new nuts in because it seemed odd to me that there was cushion contact surfaces that sat over the top of the nut slots unsupported.
 

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ROB.M

:)
Silver Member
Table

Hey’ someone is using their thinking cap’
You’ll find that the ball will do some other than ordinary things when certain shots come off the cushion in those areas, mostly one pocket players and bank pool players will notice it.


Rob.M
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Hey’ someone is using their thinking cap’
You’ll find that the ball will do some other than ordinary things when certain shots come off the cushion in those areas, mostly one pocket players and bank pool players will notice it.


Rob.M
Only problem is digging it out if another repair has to be made later.
 

ROB.M

:)
Silver Member
Table

Indeed, that’s why myself and others go thru the time and efforts to fill in the mortise and delete the floating nut plates....



Rob.M
 
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