Bonified Honest Aiming System You Need

Dan White · Dec 17, 2017

denwhit said:
It may be the only path available? I'll try to show obstruction balls in the way to prevent any other paths.

That's not necessary. I understand what "only path available" means. I'm not sure you understand my point. I guess it doesn't matter anyway. I'm simply saying that trying to hit 1 of 5 parts of a pocket on every shot is overkill and will probably result in more misses for half table length or so shots. I would never suggest that C or B level players worry about 3 or 5 parts of the pocket until their mechanics are much more precise.

Bobkitty · Dec 17, 2017

Neil said:
Why is it that you keep harping about "everything must go in the middle" when you are the ONLY one even claiming that?

Dan explained it very well in his post. Just because an aiming system lines one up for center pocket does NOT mean in any way that they can not then tweak a hair for a different portion of the pocket, or for the use of english.

Also, please understand that aiming is just that. AIMING. Positional play is a different subject. Yes both are intertwined. Just as the entire process of playing is intertwined with each component.

If you like positional drills, try Kinnisters and Dr. Daves for using spin.

I thought I've heard "everything on the pool table show these lines drive the ball into the middle of the pocket". If someone can cheat it by driving the ball thicker or thinner, it's not those three lines anymore, is it? But, I'll leave that to youse guys. I will never argue that point here.
I learn from a teacher that divides the pocket into 5 portions on every shot (regardless of the length). He and his master students must land the CB on a patch the size of the CB someplace and the portion the OB goes into the pocket is important. I am trying and may not have time left to learn it to that extent but I absolutely love the preciseness and the way he can play.

Plenty of "spin" on most of these 70 transitional drills by Robin Dreyer. I will show a few.

Neil · Dec 17, 2017

denwhit said:
I thought I've heard "everything on the pool table show these lines drive the ball into the middle of the pocket". If someone can cheat it by driving the ball thicker or thinner, it's not those three lines anymore, is it? But, I'll leave that to youse guys. I will never argue that point here.
I learn from a teacher that divides the pocket into 5 portions on every shot (regardless of the length). He and his master students must land the CB on a patch the size of the CB someplace and the portion the OB goes into the pocket is important. I am trying and may not have time left to learn it to that extent but I absolutely love the preciseness and the way he can play.

Plenty of "spin" on most of these 70 transitional drills by Robin Dreyer. I will show a few.

Saying that one did not use the system just because they did a little tweek at the end of the instructions for a slightly different result is like saying someone didn't follow mapquest driving route instructions across the city to get to their destination because they turned into the driveway at the end , and the instructions didn't say to do that.

How's that for a run-on sentence?

Bobkitty · Dec 17, 2017

Neil said:
Saying that one did not use the system just because they did a little tweek at the end of the instructions for a slightly different result is like saying someone didn't follow mapquest driving route instructions across the city to get to their destination because they turned into the driveway at the end , and the instructions didn't say to do that.

How's that for a run-on sentence?

Okay, good enough. You win. I'll stick to contact CB to OB. I can drive the OB from one edge 4 postions to the other edge using only contact aiming. Guess that is an "aiming system" so I'm okay in this thread.

Neil · Dec 17, 2017

denwhit said:
Okay, good enough. You win. I'll stick to contact CB to OB. I can drive the OB from one edge 4 postions to the other edge using only contact aiming. Guess that is an "aiming system" so I'm okay in this thread.

CCP to CCP is a good method or system. I used it for years. Just understand that it only works on paper and straight in shots. All cut shots have CIT that you will learn to incorporate subconsciously.

Dan White · Dec 17, 2017

Neil said:
All cut shots have CIT that you will learn to incorporate subconsciously.

Hmm, interesting.

BC21 · Dec 17, 2017

denwhit said:
I would love to see you hit the CB rebounding tangent on the first side rail and then back onto it's axis according to the drawing by hitting the OB in the middle or toward the thickest part of the pocket (number 1). Please video tape that one.

Here you go....https://youtu.be/kSW_2JS-vyU

Now I only shot it couple of times, and each shot could've come in a little deeper toward the 8. Maybe my CB didn't roll exactly along the proposed line in the diagram, but the reality of it is this: In a real game situation, this exact shot isn't at all guaranteed shape as illustrated/projected in your photo. More often than not the CB will not roll exactly along that path, regardless of how many times you practice it. Pool is a perfect game, but no one plays perfect. Instead, we play what we get and sometimes it's perfect. Other times it's perfect enough.

Bobkitty · Dec 17, 2017

BC21 said:
Here you go....https://youtu.be/kSW_2JS-vyU

Now I only shot it couple of times, and each shot could've come in a little deeper toward the 8. Maybe my CB didn't roll exactly along the proposed line in the diagram, but the reality of it is this: In a real game situation, this exact shot isn't at all guaranteed shape as illustrated/projected in your photo. More often than not the CB will not roll exactly along that path, regardless of how many times you practice it. Pool is a perfect game, but no one plays perfect. Instead, we play what we get and sometimes it's perfect. Other times it's perfect enough.

Good shot Brian. The only thing you missed was the instruction on the CB that says middle English low. It is a much easier, softer shot with English roll out. There is another drill that has the CB with a little bit of right hand English and the pocket can be centered or to the right corner, with a speed of level 2. All of Robin's shots are there to teach us something. Robin is no dumb bunny and he knows what shots he wants us to be familiar with. With out spin, it a 3.5 (table length shot) and Robin wants us to know that also. Now try it with middle English.

BC21 · Dec 17, 2017

denwhit said:
Good shot Brian. The only thing you missed was the instruction on the CB that says middle English low. There is another drill that has the CB with a little bit of right hand English and the pocket can be centered or to the right corner. All of Robin's shots are there to teach us something. Now try it with middle English.

:thumbup:

I didn't miss it. I just don't shoot that shot that way. I wanted to show that a similar CB position path could be achieved regardless of where the OB hits the pocket. I used about a half-tip low right, shot the thin side and the thick side and sent the cue along the same position path on each shot.

I understand that certain position shots absolutely require playing the OB to a certain portion of the pocket. But with this shot, drawing two rails toward the 8, I just showed how targeting a particular portion of the pocket isn't necessary. Of course, if you are sticking to vertical axis play (which isn't a bad idea) you would need to play a particular pocket portion in order to get the angle you need. I do it with a little spin instead.

If I needed to play this shot with top-inside to go three rails to the other side of the 8, I'd play it to the right/thick side of the pocket. Or if I wanted to draw it back to the end rail to play the 8 into the lower left corner, I'd cut the OB into the thick side with a good draw stroke. Those options would definitely require the ability of shooting the OB into a specific portion of the pocket. I think 3 portions are sufficient for playing shape to any ball....thick, thin, or center hole.

Bobkitty · Dec 17, 2017

BC21 said:
:thumbup:

I didn't miss it. I just don't shoot that shot that way. I wanted to show that a similar CB position path could be achieved regardless of where the OB hits the pocket. I used about a half-tip low right, shot the thin side and the thick side and sent the cue along the same position path on each shot.

I understand that certain position shots absolutely require playing the OB to a certain portion of the pocket. But with this shot, drawing two rails toward the 8, I just showed how targeting a particular portion of the pocket isn't necessary. Of course, if you are sticking to vertical axis play (which isn't a bad idea) you would need to play a particular pocket portion in order to get the angle you need. I do it with a little spin instead.

If I needed to play this shot with top-inside to go three rails to the other side of the 8, I'd play it to the right/thick side of the pocket. Or if I wanted to draw it back to the end rail to play the 8 into the lower left corner, I'd cut the OB into the thick side with a good draw stroke. Those options would definitely require the ability of shooting the OB into a specific portion of the pocket. I think 3 portions are sufficient for playing shape to any ball....thick, thin, or center hole.

Okay, so you agree that the thinnest part of the pocket, the left part must be hit in order for the ball to get back there with middle English. One needs the severest angle to make it back in 3.5 table lengths. On Robin's transitional shots, he does the cuing on the CB just to make it more instructive. Robin states that to hit the center of the CB is the best one can play with, if the pool player can get the conducive angles correctly. The other shots you mentioned are on the list for additional shots.

BC21 · Dec 17, 2017

denwhit said:
Okay, so you agree that the thinnest part of the pocket, the left part must be hit in order for the ball to get back there with middle English. One needs the severest angle to make it back in 3.5 table lengths. On Robin's transitional shots, he does the cuing on the CB just to make it more instructive. Robin states that to hit the center of the CB is the best one can play with, if the pool player can get the conducive angles correctly. The other shots you mentioned are on the list for additional shots.

Yes, I agree with this. But that 3.5 table lengths can be achieved without striving to be super precise on pocketing the ball in any particular portion. It just takes a little spin. It can be less demanding to use a little spin and shoot for the best chance of pocketing the ball, still guaranteeing position on the next shot, than to cheat the pocket and be off a tiny bit, missing the shot simply because you were trying to get absolute perfect position.

Like I said, pool is a perfect game and the best we can do often falls short of perfect. Even the greatest players in the world aren't guaranteed pinpoint/perfect position when going multiple rails for shape. They have a superior feel and knowledge of where the CB is going, and watching from the sidelines you might think a certain CB position was shot dead perfect, but in the mind of that pro player he or she may've visualized a slightly different CB path. To the railbird it was perfect, yet to the shooter it was just perfect enough, probably a little short of his/her own idea of perfect.

Bobkitty · Dec 17, 2017

BC21 said:
Yes, I agree with this. But that 3.5 table lengths can be achieved without striving to be super precise on pocketing the ball in any particular portion. It just takes a little spin. It can be less demanding to use a little spin and shoot for the best chance of pocketing the ball, still guaranteeing position on the next shot, than to cheat the pocket and be off a tiny bit, missing the shot simply because you were trying to get absolute perfect position.

Like I said, pool is a perfect game and the best we can do often falls short of perfect. Even the greatest players in the world aren't guaranteed pinpoint/perfect position when going multiple rails for shape. They have a superior feel and knowledge of where the CB is going, and watching from the sidelines you might think a certain CB position was shot dead perfect, but in the mind of that pro player he or she may've visualized a slightly different CB path. To the railbird it was perfect, yet to the shooter it was just perfect enough, probably a little short of his/her own idea of perfect.

All true enough. As fine a pool player as you are, you'd probably be even better taking the OB into different portions of the pocket; to increase the run out, run out the axis the tangent, etc. etc. I think you're into the middle too much

BC21 · Dec 17, 2017

denwhit said:
All true enough. As fine a pool player as you are, you'd probably be even better taking the OB into different portions of the pocket; to increase the run out, run out the axis the tangent, etc. etc. I think you're into the middle too much

Lol....I hear you. I'd say my lack of quality table time is what keeps me from aiming too far off from center pocket if I can help it. I like NOT missing. Nothing worse than missing a shot because you were more focused on getting to the next shot.

SpiderWebComm · Dec 18, 2017

BC21 said:
Here you go....https://youtu.be/kSW_2JS-vyU

Now I only shot it couple of times, and each shot could've come in a little deeper toward the 8. Maybe my CB didn't roll exactly along the proposed line in the diagram, but the reality of it is this: In a real game situation, this exact shot isn't at all guaranteed shape as illustrated/projected in your photo. More often than not the CB will not roll exactly along that path, regardless of how many times you practice it. Pool is a perfect game, but no one plays perfect. Instead, we play what we get and sometimes it's perfect. Other times it's perfect enough.

Now I see why you post the way you do along with the sheer volume of posts.

Damn, you can run your mouth from a few hundred up to a few thousand in a matter or 4 minutes. LMAO! I'll bet you were a great night time story teller to your kids when they were real young.

Btw, you do have great library. Would you pull a book out, any book and read a night time story for me that I can play if I have a case of insomnia?

:thumbup:

BilliardsAbout · Dec 18, 2017

denwhit said:
He has an aiming system. It's called contact point on the OB. Nothing else can hit the 5 portions of the pocket. So easy to demonstrate. Here is one of the thousands, millions of shots where the portion of the pocket must be met in order to get the required shape. The OB must be cut into the number 5 (the thinnest cut) in order to get this shape. Every "aiming system" that I've read about states the OB goes into the center. Can't do that here...., unless you are worried about shape for the next ball (which never comes up in AZB).

What does that mean, "nothing else can hit portions of the pocket"? Any aim system can be used to split a pocket, then adjusted slightly thicker or thinner to cheat the pocket.

SpiderWebComm · Dec 18, 2017

Of course pockets need to be cheated from time to time and was stated, ANY aiming system can do it. ANY.

When CJ Wiley used to post here until getting sick of the negativity and attacks, he said when there was an open pocket he always aimed for the CENTER of it and wanted to see it going into the CENTER.

If it went to the right or left of center but still went in he wanted to know why based on his stroke or aim because he knew he was a little off with something and needed to correct it for the rest of the match.

To him it was sloppy and would catch up at the wrong time. Talk about a perfectionist!

BC21 · Dec 18, 2017

SpiderWebComm said:
Now I see why you post the way you do along with the sheer volume of posts.

Damn, you can run your mouth from a few hundred up to a few thousand in a matter or 4 minutes. LMAO! I'll bet you were a great night time story teller to your kids when they were real young.

Btw, you do have great library. Would you pull a book out, any book and read a night time story for me that I can play if I have a case of insomnia? :thumbup:

Lol. Yes, you are correct. I suppose you give Stan the same poke in the ribs? I mean, by comparison of talk time vs action time, he out talks me big time. Must be the a teacher thing, which for me I attribute to my mom because she was a teacher. I try to make short, non-preachy vids, and for the most part that's what I accomplish. I could read you some Richard Dawkins, makes for good bedtime reading.

Bobkitty · Dec 18, 2017

BilliardsAbout said:
What does that mean, "nothing else can hit portions of the pocket"? Any aim system can be used to split a pocket, then adjusted slightly thicker or thinner to cheat the pocket.

Guess I'm wrong. I have heard the SS say that everything goes into the center of the pocket by the magical shape of the 1 X 2 table and the three lines that someone can see. Seems to me, if someone wants to hit the extreme edge of the pocket, he's got to be cheating the system by going back to contact point aiming. I will give that a rest. Everyone says they can do it.
Plus I could show diagrams of shot after shot where the middle of the pocket will not get the shape someone needs, but all of that proof would be wasted because people just do not care about shape on AZB.

SpiderWebComm · Dec 18, 2017

denwhit said:
Plus I could show diagrams of shot after shot where the middle of the pocket will not get the shape someone needs, but all of that proof would be wasted because people just do not care about shape on AZB.

That would be correct. Nobody on AZ cares about shape or could beat you or your instructor. You guys are the most knowledgeable and the greatest.

Also, nobody on AZ knows how to create angles for their next shots to begin with because they don't think about it or preplan their angles. They also don't know what a tangent line means, or how to use deflection, throw and English to get shape. Or maybe they do since it's the easiest and most common way to get shape and what pro players use.

SpiderWebComm · Dec 18, 2017

BC21 said:
Lol. Yes, you are correct. I suppose you give Stan the same poke in the ribs? I mean, by comparison of talk time vs action time, he out talks me big time.

I wouldn't do that with Stan. I'm afraid of him. He might take it the wrong way and screw up my game.

Must be the a teacher thing, which for me I attribute to my mom because she was a teacher. I try to make short, non-preachy vids, and for the most part that's what I accomplish. I could read you some Richard Dawkins, makes for good bedtime reading.

Nah, don't read Richard Dawkins or any book. Just let a thought go through you head about anything and latch on while talking at the same time. If it's a really bad case of insomnia I'm sure about 15 chapters will do it and you'll have no problem.

Put varying length talks on a CD so I can be prepared for anything.

Bonified Honest Aiming System You Need

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