Diamond Pro-Am Cushion Height?

T

Tomster

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In a pool hall that I play league in lives a 3 month old Diamond Pro-Am.

For me it has never played quite right, just kind of hard work but to be honest I rarely play on Diamond's so I just presumed it was meant to play like that.

However, I had reason to buy a rail height checking widget from the pooltablefeltcloth website so I tried it on the Diamond to see if the cushions could be causing the issue.

Below are pictures of the widget laid flat against the bed cloth, and then pushed lightly against the nose of the cushion to hold it in place when the nose fits snugly into the "optimum height" groove.

As you can see there is about 3mm gap under it, roughly the same as the size of the gap between the bed cloth and the botton of the rail.

Is this the normal set up for Diamond Pro-Am's? Cloth is Simonis 760 in case that matters.

Thanks in advance.

flat.jpg

Raised.jpg
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
First of all, you didn't describe anything about the playability, so that makes it hard to understand what you're talking about. And what id the measurement of the nose height on your gage in inches?
 
bradsh98

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Silver Member
The gauge is designed for a 1.406" nose height, which is 62.5% of a standard 2 1/4" ball. Diamond tables are typically 1.453".

To explain why it is that you may not like the way that Diamond tables play:
Diamond tables require a higher nose height because they use Artemis cushions, installed upside-down. Installing the cushion with the rounded surface facing down creates a lower contact point on the ball, than if the flat side of the cushion were facing down. This creates inconsistency in rebound speed, dependent on the speed at which a ball hits the cushion. This is also why Diamond tables tend to bank short.
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
bradsh98 said:
The gauge is designed for a 1.406" nose height, which is 62.5% of a standard 2 1/4" ball. Diamond tables are typically 1.453".

To explain why it is that you may not like the way that Diamond tables play:
Diamond tables require a higher nose height because they use Artemis cushions, installed upside-down. Installing the cushion with the rounded surface facing down creates a lower contact point on the ball, than if the flat side of the cushion were facing down. This creates inconsistency in rebound speed, dependent on the speed at which a ball hits the cushion. This is also why Diamond tables tend to bank short.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but the nose height is the exact same, canvas up or down, and Diamond installs the cushions according to Artemis instructions. And they try targeting the 1 7/16" nose height to within 1/64"th. And nose height has nothing to do with the tables banking short or springy. The red and blue label rails have the same nose height, yet they do play different.
 
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bradsh98

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Silver Member
realkingcobra said:
Sorry, but the nose height is the exact same, canvas up or down, and Diamond installs the cushions according to Artemis instructions. And they try targeting the 1 7/16" nose height to within 1/64"th. And nose height has nothing to do with the tables banking short or springy.
Click to expand...

It's not the nose height that makes them bank short and springy... It is the contact point on the ball. When the rounded side of the cushion is facing down, the contact point is much lower.
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
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bradsh98 said:
It's not the nose height that makes them bank short and springy... It is the contact point on the ball. When the rounded side of the cushion is facing down, the contact point is much lower.
Click to expand...

Wrong again, red and blue label, with the same Diamond black K55 cushions play differently, yet they have the same nose height....why?
 
bradsh98

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Silver Member
realkingcobra said:
Wrong again, red and blue label, with the same Diamond black K55 cushions play differently, yet they have the same nose height....why?
Click to expand...

I'm not wrong. But if you really think so, I would love to know why you think that.
In regards to the Red and Blue label:
The back side of the cushion is lower on the Blue label... Which also changes the angle of the front side of the cushion, thereby changing the contact point on a ball, and the cross-sectional mass of the cushion at point of impact.
 
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JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
bradsh98 said:
I'm not wrong. But if you really think so, I would love to know why you think that.
In regards to the Red and Blue label:
The back side of the cushion is lower on the Blue label... Which also changes the angle of the front side of the cushion, thereby changing the contact point on a ball, and the cross-sectional mass of the cushion at point of impact.
Click to expand...

Would +- one or two degrees of angle on the face of the sub-rail change the nose height ?
Just asking.
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
bradsh98 said:
I'm not wrong. But if you really think so, I would love to know why you think that.
In regards to the Red and Blue label:
The back side of the cushion is lower on the Blue label... Which also changes the angle of the front side of the cushion, thereby changing the contact point on a ball, and the cross-sectional mass of the cushion at point of impact.
Click to expand...

You missed the most important part of that change, and that is to change the sub rail bevel to set the nose height of the cushions back to 1 7/16" therefore the red lable and blue label like i said, share the exact same nose height. As far as the 63 1/2% of the ball, that is exactly 1 27/64" and the +/- 1% means up or down 1/32" of an inch, down speeds up, up slows down the cue ball and object balls.
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Furthermore, almost knowone knows what that 63 1/2% of the ball means or what rails it applys to, and NOT to as well.
 
bradsh98

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Silver Member
realkingcobra said:
You missed the most important part of that change, and that is to change the sub rail bevel to set the nose height of the cushions back to 1 7/16" therefore the red lable and blue label like i said, share the exact same nose height. As far as the 63 1/2% of the ball, that is exactly 1 27/64" and the +/- 1% means up or down 1/32" of an inch, down speeds up, up slows down the cue ball and object balls.
Click to expand...

I didn't miss that at all... How else would you keep the same nose height? I'm not sure why you take such an argumentative approach. You continue to act as if you are trying to contradict me, though most of what you state is in support of the things that I've already claimed.
 
bradsh98

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Silver Member
BrownDawg said:
It looks to me like there's a gap between the bottom of the rail and the slate.
Click to expand...

If you are referring to my illustration, it's an illusion, due to different line weights. I didn't draw slate, only an extension line from the bottom of the rail. Note: illustration does not show a cloth relief.
 
B

BrownDawg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the OP's pic. It looks big enough that a piece of popcorn or something has worked its way in there. Hard to tell from the pic but if Glen says there's that much cloth relief then nevermind.
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
bradsh98 said:
The gauge is designed for a 1.406" nose height, which is 62.5% of a standard 2 1/4" ball. Diamond tables are typically 1.453".

To explain why it is that you may not like the way that Diamond tables play:
Diamond tables require a higher nose height because they use Artemis cushions, installed upside-down. Installing the cushion with the rounded surface facing down creates a lower contact point on the ball, than if the flat side of the cushion were facing down. This creates inconsistency in rebound speed, dependent on the speed at which a ball hits the cushion. This is also why Diamond tables tend to bank short.
Click to expand...
Right there in your statement, that's what I'm calling bs on, and telling you point blank you have no idea what you're talking about!
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
bradsh98 said:
The gauge is designed for a 1.406" nose height, which is 62.5% of a standard 2 1/4" ball. Diamond tables are typically 1.453".

To explain why it is that you may not like the way that Diamond tables play:
Diamond tables require a higher nose height because they use Artemis cushions, installed upside-down. Installing the cushion with the rounded surface facing down creates a lower contact point on the ball, than if the flat side of the cushion were facing down. This creates inconsistency in rebound speed, dependent on the speed at which a ball hits the cushion. This is also why Diamond tables tend to bank short.
Click to expand...
you're trying to explain something you know nothing about
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
BrownDawg said:
In the OP's pic. It looks big enough that a piece of popcorn or something has worked its way in there. Hard to tell from the pic but if Glen says there's that much cloth relief then nevermind.
Click to expand...

It's a 1/16" dado to allow room for cloth and staples so they won't effect the nose height, and because the Simonis 860 is only about 1/32" thick, you can still see just a little gap, but if it was a woven wool cloth, that's thicker so you wouldn't see any gap.
 
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