Rich or Gandy???
- Thread starter Hunter
- Start date
Why Saul instead of Abe????
Because it is a known catalog model from the NY Rich cues. At least as far as we have been able to nail down here in the past.
3c, Rich Starfire Jet
That could always be wrong as I have yet to see the actual catalog. And some of Abe's cues were darn near identical to the NY cues.
We have seen several of these lately. I have one as well and have called it a NY Rich cue for years.
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The big difference I have seen is that Rich Cues used a logo and Florida Cues used a logo, but Abe did not on his post Rich Q and Florida Cues cues.
The ferrule, joint collar, wrap, and shaft insert say Florida to me, but I'm far from an expert.
It's a little more complicated than that.
Some of the logos were decals, some were paint, some were otherwise...and there were many from the NY shop that had no logo. They had contracts and supplied cues to other brands as well, so they occasionally turn up with other logos on them, like Sears for example.
The decal and paint logos were not very durable. They easily rubbed off.
I saw a Rich Q on Ebay with a worn logo that miraculously got relisted as an Abe Rich cue...after the logo got rubbed off the rest of the way. Obviously, that's a bit of a stretch and easily seen as incorrect by those that know a little.
Abe didn't make Rich Q, that was a brand out of the NY shop. They were made after the shop was sold to Imperial.
Abe made Florida cues with his brother Morris, and Star cues on his own.
The cues from the 1960's from both shops can be remarkable similar. Even the same bumpers were sued...same joint hardware. Probably they were using the same suppliers for the parts they didn't make in-house.
This could be an Abe Rich cue. But from what era? So far all we have found identifies it as a NY cue. But that is all hear-say...just repeating what others have said.
I would love to get a positive ID.
I went through all my catalogs but do not have this cue.
I have various catalogs from Rich, Rich Cue Corp, Rich Cue, Rich Custom Cues, Rich Q, and more.
I would love to get a copy of a brochure of what was called the "King Line" by Abe rich. That was around 68-73 I think.
I think I have a couple cues from that time. Some of those had leather wraps like this one I believe.
If I identified this as an Abe Rich cue, I would put it in that era and say it is likely a "King Line" cue. Those were the most expensive cues Abe made. I believe there were Titlist conversions in that line. I have seen only one of those.
I do wonder though. If it is an Abe Rich, why and how do we see so many of this exact model coming up? Did he make so many of one cue?
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Hell, I am no expert either. But I do have a small collection of these cues from both NY and FL.
They are fun to hunt and can be found cheap. The cheapest I have found yet was $3. It was in an umbrella stand at a secondhand shop. :smile:
I believe there was a lot of overlap in the parts in the sixties. Things like joint parts and bumpers seem to have been sourced from the same supplier for at least some time for both the NY shop and Abe's shop in FL.
Of course...anybody might know better and I would love to hear whatever anybody has to say on identifying these cues or categorizing their various characteristics.
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IIRC you do know a bit about these cues, so I am not arguing. Just discussing. :smile:
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So I have heard.
And I believe I heard it from you here before.
Abe had a lot of wood and liquidating his shop was no small task. In fact it is ongoing as his nephew is still selling brand new Abe Rich cues on Ebay. Apparently he meters them out at a pace to avoid depressing the market.
I communicated with him only once on a matter about an Abe cue.
I have been following those Ebay sales all along and have never seen this model come up for sale from the nephew.
I would suggest that the nephew be contacted with these pictures. He might be able to say if he has found that model among the many cues that Abe left when he died.
This particular cue model has been seen in a couple of different woods at least. And it has been seen with linen wrap, synthetic wrap, and leather wrap.
As far as wood, I can imagine the NY shop had quite the stock of wood back in the day as well. And I can imagine that when Abe relocated to Florida he might have used some of the same suppliers. Hence one can assume they were using at least some of the same wood from some of the same suppliers.
But you were in Abe's shop. You saw the turned blanks. That's firsthand. Did you see this model of cue?
Here are the current sales of Abe's nephew: https://www.ebay.com/sch/hrichwood/...yDgAAOSwSQFaNauk&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
It is from the nephew that I learned about the "King" line from 68-73. I think this cue has a good chance of being from that line. According to the nephew, those were the most expensive cues Abe ever made.
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Abe had a whole top shelf in his wooden cabinet with what he called rejects. The is what all these cues being sold not are. Slight butt warp or glue visible in the clear window or any number of things. But I bought one of the last two first quality cues to come out of Abe's shop. Those two cues were priced at $800 each. Now his cues are bringing less after he died than when he was still alive. He would be turning over in his grave if he knew this. He kept showing me a picture of a Balabushka cue in the Blue Book with the same clear window and knurls and saying, "I guess I will have to die before my cues are worth that much." He went on to say "Balabushka was not even a wood turner."
That is what a true old school wood turner thought about someone who would turn wood with a metal lathe.
Then the old school metal lathe users think the cue lathe users are somehow taking short cuts also.
That is what a true old school wood turner thought about someone who would turn wood with a metal lathe.
Then the old school metal lathe users think the cue lathe users are somehow taking short cuts also.
Yes, I am aware of that. I love the Balabushka comment. You have talked about that before. Golden moments for sure.
But again the question is perhaps why we have not seen this model among the "wood pile" cues.
Incidentally, I have never bought one of those Ebay cues. I was temped once...it was a Titlist conversion by Abe. As I remember it went for about $350.
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