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11-22-2017, 09:11 AM

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Originally Posted by hamburgerz View Post
Very nice table! You also have a nice solid stroke. Fundamentals look nice!
Thanks! I never thought of myself as having a solid stroke and good fundamentals, but I guess on video it looks better than it feels.
  
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11-22-2017, 09:20 AM

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Originally Posted by 14-1StraightMan View Post
Why in the world would you alter the pockets on that beautiful table?.... Altering equipment, that is what it is.... In its history Brunswick they have never put out pockets like that on any of their tables. Tables are manufactured to play a certain way. A good 14.1 player learns how to play all parts of the pocket to achieve position...... I hear players state... "it teaches me to hit the ball directly in"... Well, why don't they just aim dead center of a normal pocket? Players that have shimmed pockets like that do not properly learn all aspects of the game. It will do more harm to your game and you will not even realize it...... Anyways, I'm sure my opinion here will bring out the closet shimmed pocket players... I like that you put out the video of your practice. You need to work on a few points as listed above by other players. Good Luck and keep us posted on your progress.
I am the one who altered those pockets before Jeff got this table. They are not shimmed, I extended the rails.

Why?

Because I don't play 14.1 or one pocket.

They do have 3/16 facings in there though.

I told Jeff that he could simply put new 1/8 facing on the pockets without even buying new cloth for cheap and open them up enough to make a difference but he didn't do it while it was apart. Quick and easy and no go was the result. 1/8 larger would be noticeable. He could still do it.

JC


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11-22-2017, 09:29 AM

Yes. John did suggest that to me. Honestly, I'm not regretting not replacing the facings with thinner ones. My father used to tell me a story about basketball players back in the day practicing with galoshes rather than sneakers. Once they switched to sneakers they'd fly. I feel that this is my time to hone my skills. Maybe when I decide to recover the table I'll switch facings, but for now I'm in training.
  
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11-22-2017, 09:53 AM

Also Jeff is a pretty sporty player but most of the balls he missed in the latest video would not have gone in on any pockets.

The six ball in the second rack. He hit it 3 inches down the short rail. That's not falling anywhere. Mostly because he didn't stroke it well with the cue ball close to the rail. Then the 15 ball misses by 4 inches. Again a positional error. Left way too hard of a shot due to a faulty prior shot. I didn't watch the whole video but what I did watch didn't show any rattling balls that would have scored on bigger pockets.

He will be a much more accurate player for owning this table in the long run. In fact he's doing quite well. Good job Jeff!

JC


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11-22-2017, 09:55 AM

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Originally Posted by bluepepper View Post
Thanks! I never thought of myself as having a solid stroke and good fundamentals, but I guess on video it looks better than it feels.
Jeff

I did a voice over for your video and added graphics.

Jeff - First Video

I have some more stuff that I can send you - my e-mail address is in the video description.


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“Dead balls are harder to find than they are to make." ~ Cisero Murphy

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11-22-2017, 10:00 AM

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Originally Posted by JC View Post
Also Jeff is a pretty sporty player but most of the balls he missed in the latest video would not have gone in on any pockets.

The six ball in the second rack. He hit it 3 inches down the short rail. That's not falling anywhere. Mostly because he didn't stroke it well with the cue ball close to the rail. Then the 15 ball misses by 4 inches. Again a positional error. Left way too hard of a shot due to a faulty prior shot. I didn't watch the whole video but what I did watch didn't show any rattling balls that would have scored on bigger pockets.

He will be a much more accurate player for owning this table in the long run. In fact he's doing quite well. Good job Jeff!

JC
Thanks, John! I agree. It's a long video, so I don't expect anyone to watch it all. I know that there are at least a couple of balls during the run that would have gone on other tables, but cue ball control and my eyes with two astigmatisms playing tricks on me are the main problems. I even got glasses recently to try to help with the crooked sighting, but they only make the crookedness sharper , so those wildly errant balls will just happen and I have to accept that as well.
  
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11-22-2017, 10:07 AM

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Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post
Jeff

I did a voice over for your video and added graphics.

Jeff - First Video

I have some more stuff that I can send you - my e-mail address is in the video description.
Wow, David. You shouldn't have gone to so much trouble! I probably know all the problems that you're going to suggest I work on, but I'll definitely watch it soon. Thanks!
  
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11-22-2017, 10:11 AM

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Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post
Jeff

I did a voice over for your video and added graphics.

Jeff - First Video

I have some more stuff that I can send you - my e-mail address is in the video description.
Sir that was very impressive.

JC


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11-22-2017, 10:21 AM

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Originally Posted by bluepepper View Post
Wow, David. You shouldn't have gone to so much trouble! I probably know all the problems that you're going to suggest I work on, but I'll definitely watch it soon. Thanks!
No problemo amigo.

Somewhere in the video I passed along some stuff on precision - If you get nothing else out of it than that- you'll be better for it.

I haven't read any of the other comments - so I am probably just re-stating the obvious - but I enjoy doing these.

Precision is ....

Having the discipline to do something over and over ...

As well as it can possibly be done ...

Every single time ...

Even if it's uncomfortable or inconvenient.

~ Dick DeVenzio


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“Dead balls are harder to find than they are to make." ~ Cisero Murphy

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11-22-2017, 12:18 PM

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Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post
No problemo amigo.

Somewhere in the video I passed along some stuff on precision - If you get nothing else out of it than that- you'll be better for it.

I haven't read any of the other comments - so I am probably just re-stating the obvious - but I enjoy doing these.

Precision is ....

Having the discipline to do something over and over ...

As well as it can possibly be done ...

Every single time ...

Even if it's uncomfortable or inconvenient.

~ Dick DeVenzio
Hey, David. I just watched your commentated video. I do appreciate that you're trying to help, and I agree that I need to walk around the table more, take more time on each shot, and hit the balls softer. But trust me when I tell you that when I'm not moving around the table, my mind is moving quite a bit around the table. I see more options from certain perspectives, and moving is sometimes a distraction from all of the possible paths. I do agree I need to walk around the table to get the odd perspective though. I think I am doing more of that now as can be seen in the second video.

But I have to say that I disagree with you on many of the comments, both in theory and in analysis of the real life table situations and why they arose. Often we'll watch straight pool matches with top pros, and commentators who are great players themselves will disagree with one another and wonder what the heck the player at the table is doing. I know I'm not a pro at the table, but I could walk you and others through what I was thinking at each moment of this session, and you'll realize that 90% of what is seen as improper planning is actually changing from Plan A to Plan B and then Plan C and D and E. And this necessity to continually change plans boils down to 90% poor cue ball control and 10% fear of certain awkward shots.

Again, I appreciate the time you took on this, but what would truly be helpful and I think we'd all love to see would be a video where you run balls and commentate while you're shooting. What this does is test theory against real life situations. Mike Sigel's 100-ball instructional and the Poolmanis video did just this. Come to think of it, I may even do this as fun for all of us. I could talk through a rack or two, commenting on how I'm approaching the table layout, and we could all critique my thinking and not just execution.
  
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11-25-2017, 12:04 PM

I don't always agree with Blackjack but his analysis of your video is damn good. The parts about precision and attention to detail are invaluable.
You have a number of issues with your game that prevent you from running balls and lack of precision and attention to detail are among them. He also mentions stroke speed. That and also stroke length are another issue.
You seem to think that poor CB control is a large part of the problem and that may be a factor but correcting that will require developing a more reliable stroke.
A lot of the shots you missed weren't all that difficult and didn't have anything to do with poor position. You're also going into balls with no idea whats going to happen. That's a recipe for disaster and should be a last resort
Thought process needs work also. You're waiting way too long to address problems and shot selection is not good. Blackjack pointed this out right in the beginning of your 1st rack (13 and 2 ball) and continued to harp on it throughout the video. With good reason, it's extremely important. There were multiple instances during the video where your shot selection was not conducive to solving problems and at times, made them worse.
I've been rather critical here but if you're interested in improving it will take a major commitment to address things which are impeding your progress.
  
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11-25-2017, 01:57 PM

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Originally Posted by sparkle84 View Post
I don't always agree with Blackjack but his analysis of your video is damn good. The parts about precision and attention to detail are invaluable.
You have a number of issues with your game that prevent you from running balls and lack of precision and attention to detail are among them. He also mentions stroke speed. That and also stroke length are another issue.
You seem to think that poor CB control is a large part of the problem and that may be a factor but correcting that will require developing a more reliable stroke.
A lot of the shots you missed weren't all that difficult and didn't have anything to do with poor position. You're also going into balls with no idea whats going to happen. That's a recipe for disaster and should be a last resort
Thought process needs work also. You're waiting way too long to address problems and shot selection is not good. Blackjack pointed this out right in the beginning of your 1st rack (13 and 2 ball) and continued to harp on it throughout the video. With good reason, it's extremely important. There were multiple instances during the video where your shot selection was not conducive to solving problems and at times, made them worse.
I've been rather critical here but if you're interested in improving it will take a major commitment to address things which are impeding your progress.
Well, I'll agree with you that my stroke could be more reliable, and my shooting isn't flawless. My eyes aren't great, so I may miss what looks like a pretty easy shot. Precision and attention to detail are important as well, and I'll work on that.

Where I'll disagree is that I'm going into balls without any idea of what will happen. I don't go into balls willy nilly. I almost always have insurance. But I acknowledge that I will go into balls a little bit more often than pro players with great cue ball control. I do this purposely, because sometimes those pro hairpin position plays are too unlikely for me to pull off at my level. I play zones with insurance where more than one shot option is often available. So what I don't think you'll find in either of my video runs is me snookering myself.

Yes, I want to improve and love criticism that is helpful, but if you offer criticism that I disagree with, I'm going to tell you. I don't want to go through the whole video and point out everything I disagree with, but since you brought up the 2-ball and 13-ball in the first rack, let me explain them...

After opening up the rack, I recognized the 2, 15, 5, 9 cluster as a cluster that couldn't be picked off one by one. It had to be bumped. I decided to float down off of the 11-ball to the middle of those four bottom rail balls to start working on the problems. Should I have walked around the table? Maybe. I do think I could be less lazy. Anyway, I got into a great position after the 11-ball to use an opportunity off of the 3-ball or 8-ball to go directly into the cluster with insurance balls. The 3-ball made more sense to me, because the angle off of the rail was more natural, and I felt the balls would open in a better direction. After I bumped the cluster, the 13-ball blocked the 2-ball, but it wasn't serious. What you're not seeing is that the 15-ball now has no pocket, so I immediately saw that the shot on the 10-ball bumping the six a bit would open it up, and I made a good shot on that and decided to take the 15-ball in the side next. I also saw a problem with the 7-ball on the rail. Besides it being a tough shot to get on and make, I strongly disagree that it is useful for getting on the 1-ball. It's way too iffy of a shot and position play. After the 15-ball shot, I had an angle on the 14-ball to get close and take it out. I knew I had to cinch the shot and come across table for the 5-ball next, which I did. The angle I ended up with allowed me to get back down-table to get back to work on the 2-ball issue. So I have the 8-ball and 4-ball as options to play next. The 8-ball had a slight angle to bump up the 13-ball, so I tried to do just that, and I missed it. Not a bad play to solve the problem, but I missed it. Next shot was either the 6-ball or 13-ball. The 6-ball was awkward and required too much precision to get the cue ball between the 4-ball and 13-ball at perfect speed to play the 13-ball in the bottom left corner, so I chose the bridge shot on the 13-ball. I wasn't "preoccupied" with the 13-ball when I shot it. It was really the right shot. Before I shot it I had the entire end pattern planned. It was 13, 6, 2, 4, 1, break ball on the 9. If I had pocketed the 6 first as suggested, I believe the end pattern would have been harder. My cue ball draw control was bad off of the 6-ball, and I had to take the shot on the 1-ball that I missed in the upper left corner. I mistakenly used running english to help the cue ball off of the rail off for the 6-ball shot to get on the 2-ball. Again, cue ball control issues.

Anyway, my point is, don't assume so much. There's a lot going on that apparently isn't being acknowledged. If you see different plays, tell me, but acknowledge all of the factors, because all of the factors have to be acknowledged at the table.

My second video shows a slightly more solid, slightly shorter bridge and a steadier stroke, I think. I noticed that I'm moving my head on many shots though, so I'll be working on that. I'll also be working on eating less, unless the camera adds 50 pounds.

Last edited by bluepepper; 11-25-2017 at 02:06 PM.
  
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11-26-2017, 11:56 AM

Let me bring up a few more situations because I'd be interested in your reasoning behind them.
Take a look at the position of the balls at 10:10 of the 1st video. Note the relationship between the CB and the breakshot. About as good as you can get on that subpar BS.
Point being that the 13 was the best key ball, not the 4. Using the 4 meant drawing straight back across a small position zone which is a big no no position wise.
Next rack, at 14:38. 13 is a nice KB for the 7. Good end pattern was 1, 8, 13.
That wasn't really possible however because of the position of the 4 and 9. Those 2 balls were a problem area which should have been addressed much earlier.
Many times you are left with a less than ideal situation late in racks which are a result of poor shot &/or position decisions earlier in the rack.
23:08 you shot the 15 and went into the balls without knowing what would happen. In addition to missing the shot due to a poor stroke, the 6 ball ended up on the rail joining the 1 and 10 which were already there. At this point those 3 balls on the rail were essentially the only problem in the rack but were a significant one and needed immediate attention. Which they didn't get. The 2 and 11 got you to the1 but you shot the 3 instead.
I could give you more than 1 example in every rack of both runs where your shot or position selections could have been better. I'm not going to. All I can say is that the issues I pointed out in my 1st post exist in your game and need work.
Good Luck.
  
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11-26-2017, 04:38 PM

Besides what I'm about to explain think about the fact that you told me to listen to Blackjack's recommendations, and none of yours match his. Also think about the fact that nearly all of his commentated video and certainly all of your comments so far have been attacks on my play. Not one positive thing to say. Nothing I did in 43 minutes was any good. I'm a complete novice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj2gqfLNKJo&t=5s

Quote:
Take a look at the position of the balls at 10:10 of the 1st video. Note the relationship between the CB and the breakshot. About as good as you can get on that subpar BS.
Point being that the 13 was the best key ball, not the 4. Using the 4 meant drawing straight back across a small position zone which is a big no no position wise.
See, this is the sort of constructive criticism that I'm asking for, so thank you! Looking back a few shots, I agree that the 13-ball would have been a slightly better key ball if I would have seen it that way before I pocketed the 8-ball at 9:32. It would have been best to play the 2-ball next up in the top right corner to get it out of the way so that the 1-ball could have been my K2K-ball to get on the 13-ball. What got me in trouble was that I was probably thinking that I'd have a good angle off of the 13-ball to be able to play a follow shot on the 2-ball off of the right side rail to get position for the break ball, but I didn't make sure I got a slight up-table angle. I rushed the shot on the 13-ball and ended up on the 50-yard line couldn't cheat the pocket to go off the up-table portion of the side rail, and because the break ball was so high, if I had gone off of the down-table portion of the side rail I would have run the risk of getting too close to the break ball, so I decided to draw it. I think I actually wanted to draw it all the way off of the left side rail, but I didn't catch the 2-ball full and it came back at an angle towards the pocket and scratched.

Quote:
Next rack, at 14:38. 13 is a nice KB for the 7. Good end pattern was 1, 8, 13.
That wasn't really possible however because of the position of the 4 and 9. Those 2 balls were a problem area which should have been addressed much earlier.
Many times you are left with a less than ideal situation late in racks which are a result of poor shot &/or position decisions earlier in the rack.
I agree that what I did wasn't right, and if I had just drawn the 2-ball shot off of the left side rail to get above the 9-ball rather than below it, it would have been a different story. But looking back to 14:03, what I really should done was taken out the 13-ball first, then 10, 2, 15. That would have given me a great end pattern of 1, 8, 9, break ball on the 7.

I don't like the end pattern of 1, 8, 13. How do you expect to get perfect on the 13-ball from the 8-ball? Too difficult, I think. If I wanted the 13-ball as the key ball in the side pocket I think better would have been to leave the 15-ball as the K2K-ball. But I think there were better options for end patterns like the one I just rethought.


Quote:
23:08 you shot the 15 and went into the balls without knowing what would happen. In addition to missing the shot due to a poor stroke, the 6 ball ended up on the rail joining the 1 and 10 which were already there. At this point those 3 balls on the rail were essentially the only problem in the rack but were a significant one and needed immediate attention. Which they didn't get. The 2 and 11 got you to the1 but you shot the 3 instead.
True, going into the balls off of the 15-ball was risky, and I probably should have taken the shot on the 11-ball in the side instead. I guess I didn't feel comfortable with the 11-ball at that angle with the cue ball on the cushion. But the only other reasonable shot was the easier dead straight 7-ball first with follow, and I would have had to take the 2-ball next which would have been nice insurance for the 15, and I don't see an opportunity for another secondary break shot to break up the 4, 8, 13 cluster, so it made sense to me to shoot the 15 while the 2-ball was still there. I had an angle and a little bit of insurance with the 1-ball at the time, and I figured that there would be more balls up table to play if necessary.

I shot the 3-ball because the 4-ball had no pocket which was another problem I saw that was more pressing, because without the 4-ball gone I wouldn't be able to get to the 8-ball later, and I got a good angle on the 4, so I took the opportunity to shoot it. The next shot on the 14-ball was just downright awful, but if I had hit it properly I would have drifted over for a good angle on the 1-ball, but taking out the 5-ball was good too, and I got to the 1-ball two shots later without issue. But I'm not suggesting that what I did was right. There were better ways to go about that rack.

Quote:
I could give you more than 1 example in every rack of both runs where your shot or position selections could have been better. I'm not going to. All I can say is that the issues I pointed out in my 1st post exist in your game and need work.
Good Luck
Good luck to you.

Last edited by bluepepper; 11-26-2017 at 04:52 PM.
  
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bluepepper
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11-26-2017, 05:04 PM

What would you two say about the guy who got himself into this layout? He must really suck.

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