OB contact point, shift & pivot

L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here is an old simple pivot system to answer a pm.

Make sure that you only need the CB center to start the aim at the CP on the OB.
The small parallel shift will be focused to the small OB's center - disregard the larger CB altogether.

After the shift, pivot at the bridge to the center of the CB and shoot.

Aiming contact point-Model.jpg

Have fun.
 
C

cdsunrise

Registered
old simple pivot system

LAMas said:
Here is an old simple pivot system to answer a pm.

Make sure that you only need the CB center to start the aim at the CP on the OB.
The small parallel shift will be focused to the small OB's center - disregard the larger CB altogether.

After the shift, pivot at the bridge to the center of the CB and shoot.

View attachment 451377

Have fun.
Click to expand...

Hi, Could you please explain what do you mean by ??? :

Make sure that you only need the CB center to start the aim at the CP on the OB.

thanks in advance

cd
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cdsunrise said:
Hi, Could you please explain what do you mean by ??? :

Make sure that you only need the CB center to start the aim at the CP on the OB.

thanks in advance

cd
Click to expand...

Wow, a question.

Thanks.
You need to start the aiming in the correct body/cue location or stance.
When aiming systems are depicted from above and all of the balls are the same size some have difficulty in relating to aiming taking in to account perspective, fore shortening and the focal plane .

I was criticized for moving the parallel shift based on the smaller OB appearance for the critics continued to relate the shift to the larger appearing CB which would result in an unrelated larger shift. Bottom line is that relating the small shift to the smaller appearing OB accounts for the distance between the OB and CB by narrowing the final aim line angle as the separation between the CB and OB increases.

Have fun
 
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C

cdsunrise

Registered
Hi LaMas,

Ok I got it. Use CB only for initial alignment then switch to OB for the parallel shift, execute final pivot to center CB and shoot.

Can I assume that BHE can be applied right before shoot???

tks,

cd
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cdsunrise said:
Hi LaMas,

Ok I got it. Use CB only for initial alignment then switch to OB for the parallel shift, execute final pivot to center CB and shoot.

Can I assume that BHE can be applied right before shoot???

tks,

cd
Click to expand...

cd,
The pivot is a form of BHE with the bridge planted after the shift and pre pivot - certainly not FHE.
 
H

halfwaycrook

Registered
Once you pivot and you're at center ball you should be able to add whatever english you want I think...
BHE and FHE are the most effective?

My question is, is the CP on the object ball always the same position depending on where you're trying to cut the OB?
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
halfwaycrook said:
Once you pivot and you're at center ball you should be able to add whatever english you want I think...
BHE and FHE are the most effective?

My question is, is the CP on the object ball always the same position depending on where you're trying to cut the OB?
Click to expand...

where the line from the center of the pocket exits the OB ball as you see it is the contact point.
It is in the center of the OB for a straight in shot and the edge of the circle at 3:00 or 9:00 o'clock for a 90 degree cut angle etc..

Have fun
 
C

cdsunrise

Registered
LAMas said:
where the line from the center of the pocket exits the OB ball as you see it is the contact point.
It is in the center of the OB for a straight in shot and the edge of the circle at 3:00 or 9:00 o'clock for a 90 degree cut angle etc..

Have fun
Click to expand...

Then, further to your earlier assumption regarding center ball being a straight-in shot and 3:00 and 9:00 being 90 deg., can we say that a CP at quarter ball angle would produce a 45 deg hit???

cd
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cdsunrise said:
Then, further to your earlier assumption regarding center ball being a straight-in shot and 3:00 and 9:00 being 90 deg., can we say that a CP at quarter ball angle would produce a 45 deg hit???

cd
Click to expand...

No the ball is round and the contact points increase in degrees per the same increment as it approaches 90 degrees.

45.PNG

Pool isn't easy.
Have fun
 
C

cdsunrise

Registered
LAMas said:
No the ball is round and the contact points increase in degrees per the same increment as it approaches 90 degrees.

View attachment 451789

Pool isn't easy.
Have fun
Click to expand...

Agree, pool is not easy and this is what makes it the game it is.

I thank you for the very clear and concise picture and explanation.

Could you please post or pm me with same picture illustrating the three basic angles (15-30-45 deg.) please. i have never seen such pic on the net.

At shorter distance, the CP is easier to pin point on the CB. At long distance with 70 yrs old eyes, that's another story.........

Thank you for your patience.

cd
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cdsunrise said:
Agree, pool is not easy and this is what makes it the game it is.

I thank you for the very clear and concise picture and explanation.

Could you please post or pm me with same picture illustrating the three basic angles (15-30-45 deg.) please. i have never seen such pic on the net.

At shorter distance, the CP is easier to pin point on the CB. At long distance with 70 yrs old eyes, that's another story.........

Thank you for your patience.

cd
Click to expand...

cd,
I have posted 45 degrees and 30 degrees is the ubiquitous 1/2 ball, CTE shot.
That leaves the 15 degrees below:

Capture.PNG

The 15 degree point on the OB is 1/6 the diameter from the center of the OB.
If you can visualize the 3 thirds of the OB, then the 1/6 is half, but you know that.

The 45 degree cut is 1/6 from the far edge - 3:00 or 9:00 o'clock.

45 degrees.PNG
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mikjary said:
I'll use the inside of my shaft as a guide on thinner cuts. I'd rather slightly over cut the shot than not.

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

Mike,

Hi.
Very good practice/method.

I can see the cut angle in degrees using lines from the pockets and diamonds to verify.

On cuts where CIT exists, using the inside of the shaft can compensate for CIT to send the OB on the correct intended angle/destination.

Early on, I shot a spot shot using 3:00 or 9:00 o'clock spot on the OB from near the side rail in the kitchen but that wasn't 30 degrees as I thought...but you knew that.

Be well.
 
C

cdsunrise

Registered
LAMas said:
cd,
I have posted 45 degrees and 30 degrees is the ubiquitous 1/2 ball, CTE shot.
That leaves the 15 degrees below:

View attachment 451837

The 15 degree point on the OB is 1/6 the diameter from the center of the OB.
If you can visualize the 3 thirds of the OB, then the 1/6 is half, but you know that.

The 45 degree cut is 1/6 from the far edge - 3:00 or 9:00 o'clock.

View attachment 451838
Click to expand...

Thank you very much.

Lots of food for thought.

regards,

cd
 
C

cdsunrise

Registered
LAMas said:
For those that are still interested - more angle spots:

View attachment 452461

Have fun
Click to expand...

Thank you for a very interesting picture.Looking at cue ball from shooter perspective behind cueball in shooting position for a long shot is it realistic to think that one can consider 60, 75 or 90 deg. aiming or is it all the same past a certain angle and long distance????

cd
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cdsunrise said:
Thank you for a very interesting picture.Looking at cue ball from shooter perspective behind cueball in shooting position for a long shot is it realistic to think that one can consider 60, 75 or 90 deg. aiming or is it all the same past a certain angle and long distance????

cd
Click to expand...

Geometry says it's the same at all distances if you hit the spot.

Have fun.
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cdsunrise said:
Thank you for a very interesting picture.Looking at cue ball from shooter perspective behind cueball in shooting position for a long shot is it realistic to think that one can consider 60, 75 or 90 deg. aiming or is it all the same past a certain angle and long distance????

cd
Click to expand...

I answered the picture question in the post above.

To address your looking at the CB question:
When the OB is farther away, it appears smaller so the parallel shift of the cue for the same cut angle gets proportionately smaller and that results in a more narrowing angle of the shot line. This is a tiny shift and tiny resulting angle when the OB is far away. This may be difficult but finding the GB center at that distance is also a small offset from the CP on the OB.

I studied this with a constant bridge distance of around 12" behind the CB regardless of where the OB was. To move the bridge closer to say 6" would increase the post pivot aim line angle and over cut the shot. So the system is the same regardless of how small or large the OB appears even up to 90 degrees.

I posted this 5 years ago and got more good feedback here.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=283771

Have fun.

:
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In my earlier post, I showed a 45 degree cut angle from above the OB and a line that showed that the line was 1/6 of the diameter of the OB (regardless of how small it might appear) in from the edge of the OB (3:00 O'clock).


45 degrees above.PNG

This can be used to determine the contact point (red dot) on the OB as seen from the shooters view or the front of the OB on the 1/6 line.

45 degrees front.PNG

Hope this helps someone.

Have fun.
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cdsunrise et al,,

Perhaps this will help.

Go to post #1 for background info.
The CB will appear larger than the OB but the shift from the CP on the OB to the center of the OB is independent of the CB - after step 1 disregard the CB like it wasn't there until step 4 when you pivot to the center of the CB..


CCP Shift, Pivot.jpg

I hope this helps.
 
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