Amazing Lesson Today, English and Stop shot!
Old
  (#1)
denwhit
AzB Silver Member
denwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond repute
 
denwhit's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,069
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA
   
Amazing Lesson Today, English and Stop shot! - 10-17-2017, 06:25 PM

How many of you think the stop shot is the most important shot in pool? It's a true fact, but the "center ball hit" is one of the most used in all of pool. Can you do this: https://youtu.be/fjEGe0_rP2k. This is the "center ball hit". Where the cue ball rolls forward about 6" or so after hitting the OB and it can be done at all speeds and all distances. Can you do this at all speeds, slow to high? If not you should practice this in your routines. In this video, I'm doing a "center ball hit" at a medium speed at about 2.5 lengths of the table. This is where you practice this shot on a straight in. But, in real time, this ball will roll forward of the stop shot (tangent) line a few inches forward on cut shots and it is a TRUE ball roll, no deviation with stop shot or follow. Have you seen a guy perform shape by this shot time after time on ball after ball on a 9 ball rack. I've watch this man run rack after rack of never using reverse English. Knowing this knowledge will allow the player to roll his ball forward to his next shot with a close to center ball on the CB.
On English, I learned that I do NOT want to use the cue stick in a forward hand movement or a back hand movement, but on a parallel movement. All we need to do is counter "deviation" by moving everything parallel forward or backward, for English. This keeps your stroke true to form as far as your backhand movement. This is what my lesson was today with Robin Dreyer of Portland, Oregon. What you guys are missing. I suggested his next book should be: "Playing the Center Ball Hit" and showing you what he means. A true "center ball strike" is NOT a center ball hit as I'm demonstrating in the video. Some pool teachers are not even aware of this wonderful shot and how it can move around the table.


* Mark Gregory walnut rails
*RKC set up w/ 42 pt. leveling system
*ProjectorProBilliards MicroComputer

Last edited by denwhit; 10-18-2017 at 07:19 AM.
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#2)
Neil
AzB Silver Member
Neil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 17,166
vCash: 2200
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Jan 2007
   
10-18-2017, 04:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
How many of you think the stop shot is the most important shot in pool? It's a true fact, but the "center ball hit" is one of the most used in all of pool. Can you do this: https://youtu.be/fjEGe0_rP2k. This is the "center ball hit". Where the cue ball rolls forward about 6" or so after hitting the OB and it can be done at all speeds and all distances. Can you do this at all speeds, slow to high? If not you should practice this in your routines. In this video, I'm doing a "center ball hit" at a medium speed at about 2.5 lengths of the table. This is where you practice this shot on a straight in. But, in real time, this ball will roll forward of the stop shot (tangent) line a few inches forward on cut shots and it is a TRUE ball roll, no deviation with stop shot or follow. Have you seen a guy perform shape by this shot time after time on ball after ball on a 9 ball rack. I've watch this man run rack after rack of never using reverse English. Knowing this knowledge will allow the player to roll his ball forward to his next shot with a close to center ball on the CB.
On English, I learned that I do NOT want to use the cue stick in a forward hand movement or a back hand movement, but on a parallel movement. All we need to do is counter "deviation" by moving everything parallel forward or backward, for English. This keeps your stroke true to form as far as your backhand movement. This is what my lesson was today with Robin Dreyer of Portland, Oregon. What you guys are missing. I suggested his next book should be: "Playing the Center Ball Hit" and showing you what he means. A true "center ball strike" is NOT a center ball hit as I'm demonstrating in the video. Some pool teachers are not even aware of this wonderful shot and how it can move around the table.
Nice that you learned a new shot. That said, I don't believe for a second that there is a single instructor that does not know this basic shot.

Later you will find out that parallel english is the least desirable way to use english.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
denwhit
AzB Silver Member
denwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond repute
 
denwhit's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,069
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA
   
10-18-2017, 04:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil View Post
Nice that you learned a new shot. That said, I don't believe for a second that there is a single instructor that does not know this basic shot.

Later you will find out that parallel english is the least desirable way to use english.
I had one that that posts often on AZB told me the stop + roll 6" at all speeds or so is useless! He should see my teacher move it around the table. I will take your advice about "parallel" English and see if you are correct. You'd rather have your back hand, that is uniform away from the body in a normal flat out stroke, now go out away from your side of your body or in? just curious why anyone would want to do that?


* Mark Gregory walnut rails
*RKC set up w/ 42 pt. leveling system
*ProjectorProBilliards MicroComputer
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
Neil
AzB Silver Member
Neil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond reputeNeil has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 17,166
vCash: 2200
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Jan 2007
   
10-18-2017, 04:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
I had one that that posts often on AZB told me the stop + roll 6" at all speeds or so is useless! He should see my teacher move it around the table. I will take your advice about "parallel" English and see if you are correct. You'd rather have your back hand, that is uniform away from the body in a normal flat out stroke, now go out away from your side of your body or in? just curious why anyone would want to do that?
You should do a search for backhand english. here have been many long, good discussions about it on here.

Far more important than the stun-roll-through shot is the stop shot. you should be able to do it at any speed or distance. It is the foundation everything else is built on.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#5)
denwhit
AzB Silver Member
denwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond repute
 
denwhit's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,069
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA
   
10-18-2017, 05:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil View Post
You should do a search for backhand english. here have been many long, good discussions about it on here.

Far more important than the stun-roll-through shot is the stop shot. you should be able to do it at any speed or distance. It is the foundation everything else is built on.
Good information. I know BHE but prefer parallel right now. Still learning. Your second statement is true and I practice that a lot. If the tangent is blocked on the cut shot but its free a few inches out, what does someone do? The roll through is from about 6 months ago when my table was green.


* Mark Gregory walnut rails
*RKC set up w/ 42 pt. leveling system
*ProjectorProBilliards MicroComputer
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
bbb
AzB Gold Member
bbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 5,371
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Mar 2008
   
10-21-2017, 04:52 PM

dennis
read the last paragaph from fran crimi
a pro player and instructor
here is an answer about being able to and when to use spin
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpo...2&postcount=20
robins vertical axis approach definitely helped me in decreasing the spin i use in how i play position
BUT
i am happy i am comfortable using spin
dont paint yourself into a corner
have all tools in your box
my 2 cents
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
denwhit
AzB Silver Member
denwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond repute
 
denwhit's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,069
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA
   
10-21-2017, 05:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
dennis
read the last paragaph from fran crimi
a pro player and instructor
here is an answer about being able to and when to use spin
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpo...2&postcount=20
robins vertical axis approach definitely helped me in decreasing the spin i use in how i play position
BUT
i am happy i am comfortable using spin
dont paint yourself into a corner
have all tools in your box
my 2 cents
I agree with all of that. I've been working hard on english for the last week or so. It's coming along and takes time. Robin says he uses it about 2% of the time in his vertical game. I get whipped by an "A" player about 2-3 times a week that has played non stop for 55 years and he isn't sure if he's ever hit the center of a cue ball. . He is fun to watch spinning the ball everywhere and I want to learn that also. Robin says the very center of the CB has a dynamic effect, verses the edges. A direct hit verses an indirect one. Something like throwing the shot putt out or letting it slip out if you can grasp what I mean. He is fun to watch him rolling the ball everywhere.


* Mark Gregory walnut rails
*RKC set up w/ 42 pt. leveling system
*ProjectorProBilliards MicroComputer
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#8)
bbb
AzB Gold Member
bbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 5,371
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Mar 2008
   
10-21-2017, 05:38 PM

here is some more from fran in that post
It depends on your style of play and the type of position you prefer playing. Players who prefer to punch the ball, like Danny D., will play position to get a more precise angle to accommodate their punch style. Many of these players came from a 14.1 background.

to play vertical only you have to have the speed control to always leave you with the right angle to use vertical axis again
for robin its natural
"why cant everyone do it "
most of us dont have the genetics of his talent or the opportunity to play 10 hours a day
to perfect it
omce again my 2 cents
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#9)
bbb
AzB Gold Member
bbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 5,371
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Mar 2008
   
10-21-2017, 05:47 PM

dennis let me share this
there is a canadian player
"gascon"
who was in his prime a top level straightpool player in canada (he must be 70 or close now)
he plays my house pro mark coats 9 ball for cash when he comes to vero beach fl
during snowbird season
to watch them run a rack of 9 ball is a beautifull contrast in style
gascon get straighter angle on his balls so its stun shot position
mark has no problem moving the cue ball and stopping it on a dime
both can run out
difference is gascon has more problems in sending whitey with spin when he has to
dont limit yourself to not knowing ALL OF THE CUE BALL
again
jmho
icbw
  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.