"Aiming Systems" are Junk, DO the Work!

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
None of you get it. If you want your OB to hit another ball, what on earth would you count on to aim it? CTE takes the OB to the "center of the pocket" so it can't be that! You would have to rely on contact aiming and you guys can't admit it. Another aiming poster asks; why isn't my coach the best in the world? Amazing! Dustin Johnson didn't ask that of Butch Harmon, the best coach voted in USA. Pool players do not take lessons and that is the biggest problem that I can see. You all know what you are doing and that is it!. No other teacher can teach you anything. I am out of here.

No, it's not that we don't get it. It's that you still don't. CTE is a tool in the toolbox. And, it is a high quality tool. It is used to pocket balls. But, it is not the only tool in the box, and we are not required to only have one tool. Your argument is like saying that it is stupid to have a hammer in your toolbox because you might need to cut a board, and the hammer won't work for that.

It's great that you respect and believe in your instructor. One should, or go find one you do. But you come across like your instructor hasn't missed a ball in years that wasn't on purpose. We all know that just isn't true.

We all know the phrase "aim small, miss small". And we all know about cheating the pocket as an aid in positional play. What you haven't learned yet, is that it is an aid. It is not the "end all, be all" of positional play.

You act like your instructor has come across some new knowledge to pool. Cheating the pocket as an aid to positional pool is not new. You want your teacher lauded for teaching you basics, while at the same time you scoff at those who are true innovators of the game like Shuffet, Jewett, Eckert, and Dr. Dave. And then you get upset when you catch flack for it.

Sure seems to us that you are the one here that can't be taught anything, unless Robin says it.
 
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Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Dennis, don't take what I am going to say the wrong way. It's great that you learned something new, are excited about it, and want to share it. Never lose that feeling. it's what keeps us wanting to learn more.

The problem here, is that you are like the guy that just got his learning permit to drive, and you now think you have some great insight into driving and want to teach race car drivers the finer points of extreme driving.

Your thinking that the exact contact point on the ob is the determining factor on where the cb will end up is just wrong. It is but one of the factors and not even the main one. Do you realize that the contact points on the ob for different parts of the pocket draw closer together the farther away from the pocket the ob is? And what the implications of that are?

Do you realize that contact points is an aiming system? Or that no aiming system is the determining factor in where the cb will end up after making the ob? Aiming systems give you a reliable way to pocket the ob. Positional play is a whole other part of the game. It is in part determined by contact point on the ob. But much more determined by speed, which part of the cb was struck, and rails used.

Don't be the guy that just learned the alphabet and now thinks he's qualified to argue the finer points of writing a Shakespearean play. But likewise, don't lose the wonder and awe of learning something new.

I get this from the pro teacher that I see occasionally. He shows me how to hit the five parts of the pocket from all over the table, at will and states no fractional, no CTE, no other aiming system can do that except for the contact point aiming system. I can see it and that is why I delved into "the aiming systems" trying to help others hoping to learn the magic key. There ain't one!
 
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Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I get this from my teacher. He shows me how to hit the five parts of the pocket from all over the table, at will and states no fractional, no CTE, no other aiming system can do that except for the contact point aiming system.

Well, that is just because he doesn't fully understand all of the many other systems out there and how to fully utilize them. Did he also show how the contact point on the ob changes with how fast and where you hit the cb? If not, in time he should.

And, no, there is no magic system out there. they all take work, some are more accurate than others.
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
I get this from the pro teacher that I see occasionally. He shows me how to hit the five parts of the pocket from all over the table, at will and states no fractional, no CTE, no other aiming system can do that except for the contact point aiming system. I can see it and that is why I delved into "the aiming systems" trying to help others hoping to learn the magic key. There ain't one!

The thing is, contact point aiming can be incorporated into other aiming methods. In fact, I could use fractional aiming and get my fractional aim point simply by looking at the contact point. From the CB perspective, the point of contact between the balls is always halfway between a straight-on (center-to-center) aim to the OB and the fractional aim point needed to pocket the ball. Or a player could use ghostball because the contact point is always halfway between the center of the ghostball and the center of the OB.

Contact point aiming is as old as traditional fractions and ghostball aiming. And those methods, though proven somewhat effective, eventually, require a lot of vested time and dedicated work. There's a lot of trial and error involved, a lot of guessing, and this type of learning just isn't very efficient. The brain can be programmed much quicker by doing away with guesswork and trial and error learning methods. If you set up a shot and try an aiming method and it doesn't even come close to working. Repeat exactly what you did and see if you get the same results. If so, junk it and try another method. Eventually you'll find something that is either dead on or so close that your brain doesn't have to do anything but recognize and record. No hard work or hundreds of hours of table time needed training your brain to make sense of something. When all your brain has to do is recognize and record, you are programming it to recall shots as needed. And that's not hard work.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Dennis, don't take what I am going to say the wrong way. It's great that you learned something new, are excited about it, and want to share it. Never lose that feeling. it's what keeps us wanting to learn more.

The problem here, is that you are like the guy that just got his learning permit to drive, and you now think you have some great insight into driving and want to teach race car drivers the finer points of extreme driving.

Your thinking that the exact contact point on the ob is the determining factor on where the cb will end up is just wrong. It is but one of the factors and not even the main one. Do you realize that the contact points on the ob for different parts of the pocket draw closer together the farther away from the pocket the ob is? And what the implications of that are?

Do you realize that contact points is an aiming system? Or that no aiming system is the determining factor in where the cb will end up after making the ob? Aiming systems give you a reliable way to pocket the ob. Positional play is a whole other part of the game. It is in part determined by contact point on the ob. But much more determined by speed, which part of the cb was struck, and rails used.

Don't be the guy that just learned the alphabet and now thinks he's qualified to argue the finer points of writing a Shakespearean play. But likewise, don't lose the wonder and awe of learning something new.

neil i gave you a grennie on this post
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=6026324&postcount=361
thinking it was this one
this one i thought was very diplomatic and great insight.....:thumbup:
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Well, that is just because he doesn't fully understand all of the many other systems out there and how to fully utilize them. Did he also show how the contact point on the ob changes with how fast and where you hit the cb? If not, in time he should.

And, no, there is no magic system out there. they all take work, some are more accurate than others.

He has those systems and has helped many players who have flown out to see the man trying to learn CTE. Takes him about 15 minutes to show them how it doesn't work and to get back to contact point aiming system. I was only on here trying to help others who might want the dvd series and the new book. Putting years into a method that does not work. He has spent hours to show them that it is NOT the aiming system that they want. I was hoping to do everyone a favor. That's it, I'm out. I tried.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
He has those systems and has helped many players who have flown out to see the man trying to learn CTE. Takes him about 15 minutes to show them how it doesn't work and to get back to contact point aiming system. I was only on here trying to help others who might want the dvd series and the new book. Putting years into a method that does not work. He has spent hours to show them that it is NOT the aiming system that they want. I was hoping to do everyone a favor. That's it, I'm out. I tried.

If this isn't a blatant breaking of the rules, I don't know what is.

NOT ONLY ARE YOU CONTINUOUSLY BASHING CTE, WHICH YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT NOR DOES YOUR INSTRUCTOR, YOU'RE TAKING IT UPON YOURSELF TO ATTEMPT "SAVING OTHERS" FROM BUYING THE BOOK AND DVD'S BY BADMOUTHING IT WITH YOUR OWN ADMISSION ABOVE. WHO ARE YOU TO BE THE CENSOR OF THE WORLD REGARDING POOL INSTRUCTION?

IT DESERVES A BAN!


HERE ARE THE RULES WRITTEN BY MIKE HOWERTON:

Bashing other aiming systems - 06-28-2017, 01:07 PM



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



OK, apparently this needs to be said again. I do not want to see anyone bashing another aiming system in any way.

If you have a positive experience with an aiming system, then feel free to post it. If you want to discuss the merits of an aiming system, then feel free. But for now, I don't want any comparisons as we all know that will just turn into bashing.

It is amazing to me that we have more reported posts about aiming systems than we do about politics.

This is going to be handled like baseball.

First offense will be a two week vacation.
Second offense will be a month.
Third will be a year.

 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
He has those systems and has helped many players who have flown out to see the man trying to learn CTE. Takes him about 15 minutes to show them how it doesn't work and to get back to contact point aiming system. I was only on here trying to help others who might want the dvd series and the new book. Putting years into a method that does not work. He has spent hours to show them that it is NOT the aiming system that they want. I was hoping to do everyone a favor. That's it, I'm out. I tried.

It's a shame that you can't help all of the defenseless people here in AZB land...why won't they listen to you? Shake your fist, shout it out, "listen to me, dammit!" :p
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
He has those systems and has helped many players who have flown out to see the man trying to learn CTE. Takes him about 15 minutes to show them how it doesn't work and to get back to contact point aiming system. I was only on here trying to help others who might want the dvd series and the new book. Putting years into a method that does not work. He has spent hours to show them that it is NOT the aiming system that they want. I was hoping to do everyone a favor. That's it, I'm out. I tried.

For him to state that it does not work only shows that he does not know how to use it. Stan has a standing offer going for some large $$. Tell Robin, or you can yourself, and go visit Stan and try and prove your claim. But until you can come with some proof, all you are doing is slandering a very good man solely due to your and Robin's ignorance of what you are talking about. Not a good thing to be doing.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
For him to state that it does not work only shows that he does not know how to use it. Stan has a standing offer going for some large $$. Tell Robin, or you can yourself, and go visit Stan and try and prove your claim. But until you can come with some proof, all you are doing is slandering a very good man solely due to your and Robin's ignorance of what you are talking about. Not a good thing to be doing.

Anyone using it can not do hitting the 5 portions of the pocket as needed for shape. I've seen it, many others have seen it. Even the man can not do the patterns using the (his) system. Something must be overcome to make the OB change a little bit, thicker or thinner, and that must be contact aiming. Remember, he says "the middle of the pocket" as designed by the geometry of the table, a 2 X 1 table makes everything go to the center of the pocket....if someone has learned the perceptions lines, parameter lines, visual lines, perceived lines, etc. Now, if the "center of the pocket" is great for your game, and you haven't seen the shape lines that I've seen by hitting the portions of the pockets, then maybe it's your system.
 
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Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Anyone using it can not do hitting the 5 portions of the pocket as needed for shape. I've seen it, many others have seen it. Even the man can not do the patterns using the (his) system. Something must be overcome to make the OB change a little bit, thicker or thinner, and that must be contact aiming. Remember, he says "the middle of the pocket" as designed by the geometry of the table, a 2 X 1 table makes everything go to the center of the pocket....if someone has learned the perceptions lines, parameter lines, visual lines, perceived lines, etc.

Geez, Dennis. It's not that hard to understand, and has been covered by Stan and others numerous times. If you know you are lined up for center pocket, and you want to hit another part of the pocket, all you have to do is make a slight adjustment for thinner or thicker. You don't need contact points at all.

Just because the system lines you up for center pocket doesn't mean you are not allowed to make adjustments for spin or a different part of the pocket.

You like contact points, fine. Then use that. I used it for many years. I stopped using it when I found something better- CTE and 90/90. But please stop with the B.S. about how CTE doesn't work and is so limiting. It's just not true in the least.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Geez, Dennis. It's not that hard to understand, and has been covered by Stan and others numerous times. If you know you are lined up for center pocket, and you want to hit another part of the pocket, all you have to do is make a slight adjustment for thinner or thicker. You don't need contact points at all.

Just because the system lines you up for center pocket doesn't mean you are not allowed to make adjustments for spin or a different part of the pocket.

You like contact points, fine. Then use that. I used it for many years. I stopped using it when I found something better- CTE and 90/90. But please stop with the B.S. about how CTE doesn't work and is so limiting. It's just not true in the least.

Oh, how I wish someone like you, that uses "the system" would go out to see the pool teacher that I know. Unless you "know it all", you'd be in for a big reversal. But, pool players just do NOT take lessons, they are all okay on their own, much unlike the world's best golfers, tennis players, and almost any other sport on the earth. The number one golf player in the world, Dustin Johnson goes to LV to see Butch Harmon almost monthly hoping to get better. Pool players can't even tell you where to go.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
START FROM THE BOTTOM UP FOR DENWHIT'S ORIGINAL LIE ABOUT NEVER POSTING IN THE AIMING FORUM AGAIN BUT NOW SO OUT OF CONTROL SLANDERING STAN, CTE, HIS BOOK and DVD'S THAT IT'S (HE'S) OUT OF CONTROL. HOW MANY TIMES CAN SOMEONE SAY "THIS IS MY LAST POST" or "I'M OUT OF HERE" AND KEEP ON POSTING THE SAME LIES AND GARBAGE?

Today, 11:57 AM - 11-27-17
You've been very nice to me and I appreciate it. I've said everything on "the aiming" section that I wanted to write so I am out of this link.


Today, 10:47 AM
Oh, how I wish someone like you, that uses "the system" would go out to see the pool teacher that I know. Unless you "know it all", you'd be in for a big reversal. But, pool players just do NOT take lessons, they are all okay on their own, much unlike the world's best golfers, tennis players, and almost any other sport on the earth. The number one golf player in the world, Dustin Johnson goes to LV to see Butch Harmon almost monthly hoping to get better. Pool players can't even tell you where to go.

Today, 08:12 AM
Anyone using it can not do hitting the 5 portions of the pocket as needed for shape. I've seen it, many others have seen it. Even the man can not do the patterns using the (his) system. Something must be overcome to make the OB change a little bit, thicker or thinner, and that must be contact aiming. Remember, he says "the middle of the pocket" as designed by the geometry of the table, a 2 X 1 table makes everything go to the center of the pocket....if someone has learned the perceptions lines, parameter lines, visual lines, perceived lines, etc.

Today, 06:41 AM
He has those systems and has helped many players who have flown out to see the man trying to learn CTE. Takes him about 15 minutes to show them how it doesn't work and to get back to contact point aiming system. I was only on here trying to help others who might want the dvd series and the new book. Putting years into a method that does not work. He has spent hours to show them that it is NOT the aiming system that they want. I was hoping to do everyone a favor. That's it. I'm out, I tried.

Yesterday, 09:34 PM
I get this from the pro teacher that I see occasionally. He shows me how to hit the five parts of the pocket from all over the table, at will and states no fractional, no CTE, no other aiming system can do that except for the contact point aiming system. I can see it and that is why I delved into "the aiming systems" trying to help others hoping to learn the magic key. There ain't one!

Yesterday, 12:10 PM
None of you get it. If you want your OB to hit another ball, what on earth would you count on to aim it? CTE takes the OB to the "center of the pocket" so it can't be that! You would have to rely on contact aiming and you guys can't admit it. Another aiming poster asks; why isn't my coach the best in the world? Amazing! Dustin Johnson didn't ask that of Butch Harmon, the best coach voted in USA. Pool players do not take lessons and that is the biggest problem that I can see. You all know what you are doing and that is it!. No other teacher can teach you anything. I am out of here!

Yesterday, 09:18 AM
I can not show you on a forum but I know a guy that could show you in 15 minutes. He hits 5 portions of the pocket for shape, sometimes but seldom in the middle. Any aiming system that has the OB going for the middle just won't work with his shape. You can believe it or go out and see it for yourself. One little example; you are hustling a guy and you need to miss the shot but you want it to hit the corner of the pocket and not one diamond out, as he'll know you missed on purpose. All of your "aiming systems" have your imaginary lines to the center of the pocket but now you need to hit the corner protrusion and miss. You can not do this with fractions, and aiming systems that have the ball going to the middle of the hole, so you've got to resort to contact aiming. IF that is the case, why not go to contact aiming all the time?

Yesterday, 08:57 AM
A guy asked if I left because I could not get anyone to change their minds. I answered after a month or so. I'll be out now and let the "aiming systems" alone. I keep hoping someone would go to someone that can show them to be fruitless. I can't do it on here.

Yesterday, 07:16 AM
Yes, but what good is "an aiming" system if it doesn't give one great shape on the next ball? Stan says "center pocket" every minute or so in his videos. If you can take the lines that give the "center" of the pocket and then adjust it accordingly so that you can hit the pocket thick or thin, aren't you really resorting back to contact point aiming? If that is correct, why get into "an aiming" system anyway? Just my two cents.
I will leave it like this. If anyone of you could ever have a lesson or two from my teacher, you'd all be convinced of what I've written within 15 minutes. Guess I could do a video of hitting the OB thick, middle or thin and watch the CB go off in different paths, but everyone knows that. SO, why fix yourself on lines and a path that drives the OB to the middle? Beats me why you guys wont go to someone that knows? Actually, one guy from Florida just spent 3 days with him this holiday. His second time out to Portland, Or. So guess me saying he is the best, got some attention. I can not prove what he says and does on here so I guess me writing about it does anything good.

11-25-2017, 03:44 PM
I grasp it completely. My instructor gave me 70 important transitions that everyone should know to use on my projector on the table. In order to produce the CB effect and proper roll out to the target, one must hit the correct portion of the pocket. Someone can NOT do these transitions hitting the middle of the pockets. Any aiming system that I've read about has the OB in the middle of the pocket, so how would someone learn these transitions? I'll stick to the CB contracting the OB to make it go where it needs to go whether its in the middle, thick or thin into the pocket. Most on here don't understand that. They want the "MIDDLE" of the pocket every time they stroke the OB as Stan has thousands of times commented. You can do it your way.

11-25-2017, 01:57 PM
NO, its because AZB posters don't even know that the CB goes off in different directions when the OB hits the pocket at 1 (the thickest) and through 5 (the thinnest). If someone rolls the CB for shape, he needs to know this stuff. Stan says his aiming system has you hit the middle of the pocket and that's crazy except for almost full table shots. THAT knowledge makes any aiming system except for the contact spot on the OB, so you can deliver it where it needs to go, stupid to me. That's why I'm out of here.

10-26-2017, 10:00 AM

Hey everyone that reads the aiming forum. I will not be posting here anymore as I can see it's like changing a Democrat to a Republican. I have a great fantastic teacher and will constantly be taking lessons from him and doing the drills and exercises that he instructs me to do. I do it because he is a world class player, teacher and a great friend. I'll be up in the main forum with the projector stuff that's about to happen and stuff for sale, etc. I dearly wish any of you could take a lesson from Robin and find out what I've found out. I wish I could play pool with all of you and that adult drink is on me!
 
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Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Oh, how I wish someone like you, that uses "the system" would go out to see the pool teacher that I know. Unless you "know it all", you'd be in for a big reversal. But, pool players just do NOT take lessons, they are all okay on their own, much unlike the world's best golfers, tennis players, and almost any other sport on the earth. The number one golf player in the world, Dustin Johnson goes to LV to see Butch Harmon almost monthly hoping to get better. Pool players can't even tell you where to go.

Dennis, I don't teach anymore except on here due to health reasons, but I was an instructor for many years. Not just a player. I know all about pool players thinking every sport and game ever invented needs instructors except for pool. lol.

Like I said, go to Stan and make some big $$ if you are so sure.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Welcome back, Spider.

Thanks, but I can't say I'm glad to be back. I'd rather fade off into the sunset and retire from this crap. If the 4 Musketeers were completely gone for good without their caustic posts, I would retire.

Just a little satire and nonsense from me as a 'hello'......:smile:

"Welcome back......
To that same old place that you laughed about.
Well the names have not changed since you hung around,
But those dreams have remained and they've turned around.
Who'd have thought they'd lead ya back here where we need ya
Yeah we tease 'em a lot cause we've got 'em on the spot, welcome back, Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back."

Maybe I should change my name to "Kotter"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZzEzDkeHzI.


Regards,
Pete
:thumbup:

You're a good man Pete.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Dennis, I don't teach anymore except on here due to health reasons, but I was an instructor for many years. Not just a player. I know all about pool players thinking every sport and game ever invented needs instructors except for pool. lol.

Like I said, go to Stan and make some big $$ if you are so sure.

You've been very nice to me and I appreciate it. I've said everything on "the aiming" section that I wanted to write so I am out of this link. Just now sold my dvd copies so I'm done with that. You fellows can have it.
 
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ral819

Registered
Aiming methods

Hi, I'm just an avid pool student and participate in APA leagues as a 6/5 skill level. Over the last five + years or so, I've tried numerous methods that I've come across over Youtube (mainly) as well as other means. I've noticed I tend to revert to different methods for different shots. I tend to fall back on Ghost ball, Parallel shift, and even try to visualize a rail on some cut shots. What I'd like to ask is, when I look at a shot and think I know the cut angle/ ball overlap, I'm often wrong ? I literally need to confirm the points on the OB/CB, As in Parallel shifting, or Ghost Ball point on the table. Is it a good thing to confirm a shot angle with more than one method ? Seems to me I'm making it complicated ? Or, The more ways for confirmation, the better ?
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
There's nothing wrong with using different methods, tips and tricks on aim. We all do it for various "favorite" shots. However, if you're in analysis by paralysis you need a simpler, improved system. Happy to give you a free listen to straight you out, literally.
 
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