"Aiming Systems" are Junk, DO the Work!

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
As I continue to practice and doing the work, I'm super convinced that you guys looking for an "aiming system" are trying to NOT do the work. You are looking for the EASY deal. I know a guy that grew up on the pool table and was a hustler. He tells me, he knows there are 75 spots on the OB to hit the shot. For one simple example: He could be at the other end of the table, with a foot apart between OB and CB, a 20-50 degree cut and hit the corners of the pockets at the other end of the table to make his "missed" shot look correct to his opponent. He says that 40% of the OB can NOT be measured using fractions, CTE, etc. etc. aiming systems. I have seen him do it time after time so don't tell me how phony he is, IF you were there, he'd show you too.... so don't try to tell me he's full of it. WHAT kind of aiming system can do that?
 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As I continue to practice and doing the work, I'm super convinced that you guys looking for an "aiming system" are trying to NOT do the work. You are looking for the EASY deal. I know a guy that grew up on the pool table and was a hustler. He tells me, he knows there are 75 spots on the OB to hit the shot. He could be at the other end of the table, with a foot apart between OB and CB, a 20-50 degree cut and hit the corners of the pockets at the other end of the table to make his "missed" shot look correct to his opponent. He says that 40% of the OB can NOT be measured using fractions, CTE, etc. etc. aiming systems. I have seen him do it time after time so don't tell me how phony he is, IF you were there, he'd show you too.... so don't try to tell me he's full of it. WHAT kind of aiming system can do that?

You're a troublemaker and a hater, and probably a communist or possibly even a neo-Nazi.

Just wanted to get that over with so we can move on to your point. I think even for a beginner, having a consistent pre shot routine, whatever that may be for that player, is more important than a formal aiming procedure.

I guess nowadays every post has to end with a disclaimer: No particular aiming system is better or worse than any other. If you do learn aiming system "ABC" and it helps your game, then more power to ya!
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
You're a troublemaker and a hater, and probably a communist or possibly even a neo-Nazi.

Just wanted to get that over with so we can move on to your point. I think even for a beginner, having a consistent pre shot routine, whatever that may be for that player, is more important than a formal aiming procedure.

I guess nowadays every post has to end with a disclaimer: No particular aiming system is better or worse than any other. If you do learn aiming system "ABC" and it helps your game, then more power to ya!

Eventually, as they get better in pool, they will have to come to their own conclusion THAT there is no aiming system that will help them improve. Come hell or high water! Sure, a 30 degree shot means that a person can aim his cue stick at the edge of the OB, but THAT one example is it! Other wise, he's got to learn how to aim. IF these guys had 15 minutes with this guy, they'd see the difference. There is no easy way other than to do the work.
 
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SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
THIS IS THE AIMING FORUM, NOT THE ANTI-AIMING FORUM OR A PRE-SHOT ROUTINE FORUM. START A THREAD IN THE MAIN FORUM REGARDING THE IMPORTANCE OF A PRE-SHOT ROUTINE AND THE MULITPLE WAYS IT CAN BE DONE FOR THOSE INTERESTED.

THIS IS NOTHING MORE THAN A BAITING, TROLLING, AND TYPICAL FLAME WAR STARTING THREAD AND POSTS LIKE ALL THE OTHERS.


AzHousePro

Administrator

Bashing other aiming systems - 06-28-2017, 01:07 PM

OK, apparently this needs to be said again. I do not want to see anyone bashing another aiming system in any way.

If you have a positive experience with an aiming system, then feel free to post it. If you want to discuss the merits of an aiming system, then feel free. But for now, I don't want any comparisons as we all know that will just turn into bashing.

It is amazing to me that we have more reported posts about aiming systems than we do about politics.

This is going to be handled like baseball.

First offense will be a two week vacation.
Second offense will be a month.
Third will be a year.
 
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Renegade_56

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As I continue to practice and doing the work, I'm super convinced that you guys looking for an "aiming system" are trying to NOT do the work. You are looking for the EASY deal. I know a guy that grew up on the pool table and was a hustler. He tells me, he knows there are 75 spots on the OB to hit the shot. For one simple example: He could be at the other end of the table, with a foot apart between OB and CB, a 20-50 degree cut and hit the corners of the pockets at the other end of the table to make his "missed" shot look correct to his opponent. He says that 40% of the OB can NOT be measured using fractions, CTE, etc. etc. aiming systems. I have seen him do it time after time so don't tell me how phony he is, IF you were there, he'd show you too.... so don't try to tell me he's full of it. WHAT kind of aiming system can do that?

I agree with this to a point Dennis. I wonder though if this guy you speak of actually had to "do the work" so to speak. I have a nephew who at 10 years old could walk around the table draining cut shot after cut shot and grinning at his opponent after every shot. He knew nothing about position play, or banking, or defense, but damn he could cut balls in. He is now 21 and could care less about playing pool, and rarely even bothers. He never "did the work", just a natural eye. Any system that says to hit a ball exactly the same way while the ball positions change about the table makes me skeptical, and while I think it's close on many shots, I think the ones who are successful doing it likely make an unconcious adjustment due to a natural instinct. Another system promotes never aiming at the ball, but yet using fractional ball perceptions to align one to the shot line, and then aiming at the cueball. For some people, like me, consistently seeing and actually hitting a contact point on a ball is not easy. I happen to use the perception idea on many shots because I have more faith in it. I have thrown balls out and made 20-25 balls in a row many times without ever paying any attention to contact points or portions of the object ball when I aimed. That said, any system has an "individual factor" involved and therein lies the determining factor of how successful one is with a system. The goal I think with either, or any system, is to get the shooter on a good alignment and then train ones eyes to naturally see and hit the shot correctly, which without a system, a given player may lack the focus to get to that point, so I think any system that keeps a practicing player focused on practicing is better than just hitting balls because they saw someone else do it.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
I agree with this to a point Dennis. I wonder though if this guy you speak of actually had to "do the work" so to speak. I have a nephew who at 10 years old could walk around the table draining cut shot after cut shot and grinning at his opponent after every shot. He knew nothing about position play, or banking, or defense, but damn he could cut balls in. He is now 21 and could care less about playing pool, and rarely even bothers. He never "did the work", just a natural eye. Any system that says to hit a ball exactly the same way while the ball positions change about the table makes me skeptical, and while I think it's close on many shots, I think the ones who are successful doing it likely make an unconcious adjustment due to a natural instinct. Another system promotes never aiming at the ball, but yet using fractional ball perceptions to align one to the shot line, and then aiming at the cueball. For some people, like me, consistently seeing and actually hitting a contact point on a ball is not easy. I happen to use the perception idea on many shots because I have more faith in it. I have thrown balls out and made 20-25 balls in a row many times without ever paying any attention to contact points or portions of the object ball when I aimed. That said, any system has an "individual factor" involved and therein lies the determining factor of how successful one is with a system. The goal I think with either, or any system, is to get the shooter on a good alignment and then train ones eyes to naturally see and hit the shot correctly, which without a system, a given player may lack the focus to get to that point, so I think any system that keeps a practicing player focused on practicing is better than just hitting balls because they saw someone else do it.

I hope I'm not dismissing any "aiming system", I'm just saying they all do not work. I think Willie Mosconi says it best; "just look at the opposite side facing the hole and hit that". I think everyone that pots a ball is doing that eventually. I can not give an example better than the one I put up in the OP. 40% of the 100% that the OB can be hit upon, can not be using fractions, CTE, SAMBA, etc. etc. I've seen it happen, I've seen it done and I believe it. If anyone is interested in finding the truth about "aiming" systems, contact me.
 
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Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
I hope I'm not dismissing any "aiming system", I'm just saying they all do not work. I think Willie Mosconi says it best; "just look at the opposite side facing the hole and hit that". I think everyone that pots a ball is doing that eventually. I can not give an example better than the one I put up in the OP. 40% of the OB can not be hit using fractions, CTE, SAMBA, etc. etc. I've seen it happen, I've seen it done and I believe it. If anyone is interested in finding the truth about "aiming" systems, contact me.

The only "true" known angles on the OB are the Center.... OB edge.... Halfway between.... and .281 from both the OB center and OB edge.

Those "true" known angles are center OB 0*.. OB edge 30*...halfway 15*... .281 from OB center 7 1/2*... and .281 from the OB edge 22 1/2*

Edit: There are many more points you could aim for but the angle points listed are clearly the easiest to see.. especially at longer distances.

.
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
I hope I'm not dismissing any "aiming system", I'm just saying they all do not work. I think Willie Mosconi says it best; "just look at the opposite side facing the hole and hit that". I think everyone that pots a ball is doing that eventually. I can not give an example better than the one I put up in the OP. 40% of the OB can not be hit using fractions, CTE, SAMBA, etc. etc. I've seen it happen, I've seen it done and I believe it. If anyone is interested in finding the truth about "aiming" systems, contact me.

A 40% hit on the OB produces a 36° shot angle. A 3/8 fractional aim produces a 37.5° shot angle. The only possible time a 3/8 aim will not work for the shot is if there is 7 or 8 ft from the ob to the pocket. It's a very fine adjustment then to hit the OB a micro thicker to force the angle to 36°. It can be a touch of inside or a change in speed. That's where a developed feel comes into play. An aiming system could be considered a shortcut to creating pocketing skills with minimal work if the system is accurate enough to allow the player reasonable aiming consistency without guesswork. This helps the player develop a feel, as long the player pays attention to what they are doing and what happens in return. That's the "work" of programming your brain.

The thing is, probably 95% or more of shots in a typical game do not need such precision to successfully pocket balls. There is too much focus on perfect center pocket shooting, but the reality is that even the best pros don't shoot every shot into the center of the pocket, not even close. They just make sure the ball hit the pocket and CB goes where it should go. Beyond that, precision is way overrated when it comes to making shots.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
THIS IS THE AIMING FORUM, NOT THE ANTI-AIMING FORUM OR A PRE-SHOT ROUTINE FORUM. START A THREAD IN THE MAIN FORUM REGARDING THE IMPORTANCE OF A PRE-SHOT ROUTINE AND THE MULITPLE WAYS IT CAN BE DONE FOR THOSE INTERESTED.

THIS IS NOTHING MORE THAN A BAITING, TROLLING, AND TYPICAL FLAME WAR STARTING THREAD AND POSTS LIKE ALL THE OTHERS.


Dave - this would be a much more normal forum if you would just stop with the hyperbole and crocodile tears. This is a forum called "Aiming Conversation." It is not exclusive to people who are 100% sold on the usefulness of aiming "systems." Everyone has a right to an opinion, good or bad, as long as they don't become disruptive, offensive, violating the rules of the forum.

Denwhit's OPINION hardly meets the bashing standard set by the moderators. Just relax a little, will ya? It takes two to create a flame war so just ignore any threads you don't care for. That's what I do with your posts. I just ignore them, but my good nature and naivete pulls me back to responding to you every once in awhile. I keep believing you might do away with the histrionics if you are appealed to in a rational way.

I guess it's up to you.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Coal

Denwhit's sig line says: *Pool is not my only fun thing. I love passing those gas stations in the Tesla.

Denwhit: Those Teslas are pretty sharp looking. What's it like driving a coal powered vehicle? :eek: just kidding (well, not kidding to the tune of about 40%)!
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
A 40% hit on the OB produces a 36° shot angle. A 3/8 fractional aim produces a 37.5° shot angle. The only possible time a 3/8 aim will not work for the shot is if there is 7 or 8 ft from the ob to the pocket. It's a very fine adjustment then to hit the OB a micro thicker to force the angle to 36°. It can be a touch of inside or a change in speed. That's where a developed feel comes into play. An aiming system could be considered a shortcut to creating pocketing skills with minimal work if the system is accurate enough to allow the player reasonable aiming consistency without guesswork. This helps the player develop a feel, as long the player pays attention to what they are doing and what happens in return. That's the "work" of programming your brain.

The thing is, probably 95% or more of shots in a typical game do not need such precision to successfully pocket balls. There is too much focus on perfect center pocket shooting, but the reality is that even the best pros don't shoot every shot into the center of the pocket, not even close. They just make sure the ball hit the pocket and CB goes where it should go. Beyond that, precision is way overrated when it comes to making shots.

The ( 40%) of my post was taken out of context. I meant to say that of the 60% of the OB that can be hit upon using fractions, SAMBA, CTE, etc. etc., 40% of the hits can not be aimed by any system in any way.
 
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Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Denwhit's sig line says: *Pool is not my only fun thing. I love passing those gas stations in the Tesla.

Denwhit: Those Teslas are pretty sharp looking. What's it like driving a coal powered vehicle? :eek: just kidding (well, not kidding to the tune of about 40%)!

I own a Tesla Model S. Best car I've ever owned (and I've owned almost 100 by now) and I'm not "an environmentalist". But, I do love charging it full every night at Oregon's $06 per KW. That's $5 per 250 miles.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I own a Tesla Model S. Best car I've ever owned (and I've owned almost 100 by now) and I'm not "an environmentalist". But, I do love charging it full every night at Oregon's $06 per KW. That's $5 per 250 miles.

Off topic so I'll keep it brief. One of my reservations about an electric car at this point is how do you charge it if you are going on a long trip? Say I'm staying at a motel. What do you do?
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Dave - this would be a much more normal forum if you would just stop with the hyperbole and crocodile tears. This is a forum called "Aiming Conversation."

This would be a much more normal forum if you stayed out of it for the rest of your life.

It's called Aiming Conversation BUT you left something out which is listed below it: "Aiming Conversation
How do you aim? How should everyone else aim? Argue to your heart's content"

Arguing to your heart's content is no longer an option with the NEW RULES..


It is not exclusive to people who are 100% sold on the usefulness of aiming "systems."

When he listed other AIMINGS SYSTEMS by name in his post he was denigrating them, I don't care how he later denies it.

Everyone has a right to an opinion, good or bad, as long as they don't become disruptive, offensive, violating the rules of the forum.

Based on the new rule, it could be interpreted as such. And of course, you'll be the first AS YOU WERE IN THIS THREAD to jump in to pour gasoline on the fire.

Denwhit's OPINION hardly meets the bashing standard set by the moderators. Just relax a little, will ya?

Are you a moderator now to judge anything? Get lost, will ya?

It takes two to create a flame war so just ignore any threads you don't care for.

Why do you never take your own advice but only give it to others?
You're on a high pedestal there.


That's what I do with your posts. I just ignore them,

LMAO! You NEVER ignore them! You're lying so bad it's hilarious.

but my good nature and naivete pulls me back to responding to you every once in awhile.

LMAO even harder. Good nature and naivete, huh? How about combative troll flame war starter to do every thing possible to get me banned! And as far as your relationship goes behind the scenes, you have a much better chance of succeeding than anyone else does to get you banned.

I keep believing you might do away with the histrionics if you are appealed to in a rational way.

I guess it's up to you.

You've never been rational from the start. What I'd like to see done away with is your negative presence in the aiming forum. 14.1 is where you belong. Do yourself, 14.1 players and us in aiming a favor.

It's up to you.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You've never been rational from the start. What I'd like to see done away with is your negative presence in the aiming forum. 14.1 is where you belong. Do yourself, 14.1 players and us in aiming a favor.

It's up to you.

I feel like Charlie Brown with the football.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Off topic so I'll keep it brief. One of my reservations about an electric car at this point is how do you charge it if you are going on a long trip? Say I'm staying at a motel. What do you do?

Tesla Motors has all of that in hand. They built Superchargers all along every interstate freeway all across the US and most of Europe. Almost every 50 miles one can find a Tesla Supercharger along the free way. They can charge up at 350 amps. Free!
 

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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tesla Motors has all of that in hand. They built Superchargers all along every interstate freeway all across the US and most of Europe. Almost every 50 miles one can find a Tesla Supercharger along the free way. They can charge up at 350 amps. Free!

How long does it take to charge at one of these charging stations?
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
How long does it take to charge at one of these charging stations?

Just depends on how much electric you use. 200 miles would be about 30 minutes. I went to San Diego in January. a 1100 mile journey each way. Took me about 2 hours to charge up along the way each way. 4 hours (for free) versus $400 in gasoline for the typical nice car. I'm retired, so I'll take the 4 hours.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
The ( 40%) of my post was taken out of context. I meant to say that of the 60% of the OB that can be hit upon using fractions, SAMBA, CTE, etc. etc., 40% of the hits can not be aimed by any system in any way.

Lol. I'm lost. But I do believe a good system can get a player hitting the pocket consistently much quicker than the old conventional rote system of trial and error. Any shot can be looked at fractionally. A player can aim for any fractional shot and easily fine tune the resulting hit to be as thin or as thick as needed.
 
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