Is it, or isn't it 30 degrees?

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
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When the CB center is aimed to hit the OB edge.. the OB contact point is exactly between your OB edge and OB center.

When the CB contacts the OB, the OB travels in a line that extends from the OB contact point through the OB center axis.

At times we'll think "Is it, or isn't it 30 degrees?". Aim at the OB edge. The OB contact point will tell if it's going 30 degrees.

The line from OB contact point, through OB center, will align to the pocket. If the line points right or left it's not 30 degrees.

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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
.

When the CB center is aimed to hit the OB edge.. the OB contact point is exactly between your OB edge and OB center.

When the CB contacts the OB, the OB travels in a line that extends from the OB contact point through the OB center axis.

At times we'll think "Is it, or isn't it 30 degrees?". Aim at the OB edge. The OB contact point will tell if it's going 30 degrees.

The line from OB contact point, through OB center, will align to the pocket. If the line points right or left it's not 30 degrees.

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I've read this 4 or 5 times carefully and I'm having trouble understanding what you are saying. Two things that come to mind other than what your overall point is: 1, the ob will not travel on the line from the contact point through the center of the ob "axis" because there is always a varying amount of throw, and 2, why do you say the line through the ob will align to the pocket? That line will only point to the pocket if the balls happen to lie that way. Like I said, I'm confused.
 

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
I've read this 4 or 5 times carefully and I'm having trouble understanding what you are saying. Two things that come to mind other than what your overall point is: 1, the ob will not travel on the line from the contact point through the center of the ob "axis" because there is always a varying amount of throw, and 2, why do you say the line through the ob will align to the pocket? That line will only point to the pocket if the balls happen to lie that way. Like I said, I'm confused.

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1...When the CB center is aimed to hit the OB edge.. the OB contact point is exactly between your OB edge and OB center.

2...When the CB contacts the OB, the OB travels in a line that extends from the OB contact point through the OB center axis.

3...At times we'll think "Is it, or isn't it 30 degrees?". Aim at the OB edge. The OB contact point will tell if it's going 30 degrees.

4...The line from OB contact point, through OB center, will align to the pocket. If the line points right or left it's not 30 degrees.

Dan White.. This thread is about finding if your pocketing angle is more, or less than 30 degrees. Not shooting.

1...When the CB center is aimed at the OB edge, the balls contact (collide) directly in the center of the overlap.
2...When the CB has natural roll, the OB travels down the pocket line from contact point toward OB center axis.
3...15 balls racked balls run 30 degrees. CCB on the head spot, aimed at the head ball edge is a 30 degree hit,
4...When both the CB and OB are aimed for a half ball overlap the CB/OB are aligned for a 30 degree cut path.
If the path line heads into a pocket it's a 30 degree cut angle. If it's short it's less than. If it's wider it's more than.

That being said.. If you know the contact point for 30 degrees is 1/2 way between the OB center and OB edge...
and you know a OB travels from the OB contact toward it's axis, then you know if it's a 30 degree pocket angle.

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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Dan White.. This thread is about finding if your pocketing angle is more, or less than 30 degrees. Not shooting.

1...When the CB center is aimed at the OB edge, the balls contact (collide) directly in the center of the overlap.
2...When the CB has natural roll, the OB travels down the pocket line from contact point toward OB center axis.
3...15 balls racked balls run 30 degrees. CCB on the head spot, aimed at the head ball edge is a 30 degree hit,
4...When both the CB and OB are aimed for a half ball overlap the CB/OB are aligned for a 30 degree cut path.
If the path line heads into a pocket it's a 30 degree cut angle. If it's short it's less than. If it's wider it's more than.

That being said.. If you know the contact point for 30 degrees if 1/2 way between the OB center and OB edge...
and you know a OB travels from the OB contact toward it's axis, then you know if it's a 30 degree pocket angle.

.

Ok.....I think I understand what you are saying. The contact point on the OB for any shot (from the perspective of the CB) is always halfway between the center of the OB and the particular fractional aim point needed to pocket the OB. Knowing this, and using a 1/2 ball shot as an example, you look at center OB and edge of OB from thhe CB's perspective for a 1/2 ball hit, then you look at the halfway point (the OB contact point) and then determine if that point is directing the OB to the pocket or if it needs thinned or thickened.

Here's a good way to describe the process: line up with the CB like you're going to shoot a 1/2 ball shot on the OB, then from that perspective look at the 3/4 spot on the OB (which is halfway between OB center and OB edge). This would be the contact point if you were to shoot the 1/2 ball shot. Now keep that point in focus while you move to behind the OB, then look at where that contact point will send the ball. If it looks thinner than needed then the actual shot angle is thicker than a 1/2 ball hit, less than 30°. If it looks like the contact point will cause a thicker shot than needed, then the actual shot angle is greater than 30°, requiring a thinner hit than half ball
 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dan White.. This thread is about finding if your pocketing angle is more, or less than 30 degrees. Not shooting.

OK, I understand what you are saying now. You are comparing the contact point needed to pocket the ball to the 3/4 spot. If they are the same then the shot is a 30 degree hit. Makes sense.

You really might find Poolology very interesting based on your signature line.
 

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
Ok.....I think I understand what you are saying. The contact point on the OB for any shot (from the perspective of the CB) is always halfway between the center of the OB and the particular fractional aim point needed to pocket the OB. Knowing this, and using a 1/2 ball shot as an example, you look at center OB and edge of OB from thhe CB's perspective for a 1/2 ball hit, then you look at the halfway point (the OB contact point) and then determine if that point is directing the OB to the pocket or if it needs thinned or thickened.

Here's a good way to describe the process: line up with the CB like you're going to shoot a 1/2 ball shot on the OB, then from that perspective look at the 3/4 spot on the OB (which is halfway between OB center and OB edge). This would be the contact point if you were to shoot the 1/2 ball shot. Now keep that point in focus while you move to behind the OB, then look at where that contact point will send the ball. If it looks thinner than needed then the actual shot angle is thicker than a 1/2 ball hit, less than 30°. If it looks like the contact point will cause a thicker shot than needed, then the actual shot angle is greater than 30°, requiring a thinner hit than half ball

That's a better way to describe what I'm saying. When you say to look at the 3/4 spot... I look
at the 1/4 spot if it's a 3/4 overlap. I aim at smaller fractions inside the OB by using center CB.
I find my aiming at smaller cut angles is more precise than by looking to overlap an entire ball.
When I aim using center CB my 1/8 ball will be your 7/8 overlap.. My 1/4 spot will be your 3/4.

Working from OB center to OB edge in 1/8 fractions (my way)... OB center, 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2.
When past the OB edge I use the CB edge along the same increments, or start pivot aiming.

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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
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Got the book.... but some of angles seem off.

The book values account for typical throw, so on paper they may not look right. Even on the table some do not look right. But the results are good. Due to the simplification of the system (using straight lines that correspond to the table diamonds instead of the original circular patterns), the system breaks down at thinner cut angles like a 1/8 hit or thinner. And there are two or three areas where a slight aiming compensation is needed. So, yes, there are rare instances where the angles seem off. But that's on thinner cuts. As far as determining whether a shot is thicker or thinner than 1/2 ball, the system is dead on.
 

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
The book values account for typical throw, so on paper they may not look right. Even on the table some do not look right. But the results are good. Due to the simplification of the system (using straight lines that correspond to the table diamonds instead of the original circular patterns), the system breaks down at thinner cut angles like a 1/8 hit or thinner. And there are two or three areas where a slight aiming compensation is needed. So, yes, there are rare instances where the angles seem off. But that's on thinner cuts. As far as determining whether a shot is thicker or thinner than 1/2 ball, the system is dead on.

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Haven't used it much since I got it, but I had problems with the end rail points.
Maybe I'll pick your book up again to give it another another try. Could be me.

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Player

I'm your huckleberry
Silver Member
Personally, I find that a rolling CB does real well with this system. When I use draw and stun I compensate for throw with a little outside usually.

For me, I will line up according to the system but if I feel I'm a little off I will adjust a little. Works for me.

I don't use it for every shot either, but find it very valuable sometimes when I'm wondering " is that a 3/4 ball shot or a little less?", for instance.

I see it as another tool in the chest. Money well spent!
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can any of us really reliably differentiate between 30 degrees v 28 or 32?!

AND, who's is to say that my 30 degrees looks and is the same as your 30 degrees, or anyone else's for that matter?

Lou Figueroa
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Can any of us really reliably differentiate between 30 degrees v 28 or 32?!

AND, who's is to say that my 30 degrees looks and is the same as your 30 degrees, or anyone else's for that matter?

Lou Figueroa

So true. And though a half-ball shot with typical throw is closer to 28°, the angle created between the balls is at contact is 30°. The resulting shot angle could be anywhere between 25° and 32° depending on speed and spin.
 

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
Can any of us really reliably differentiate between 30 degrees v 28 or 32?!

AND, who's is to say that my 30 degrees looks and is the same as your 30 degrees, or anyone else's for that matter?

Lou Figueroa

That is the point to this thread.. if you don't know if your angle is 30 degrees.
Aim CCB at the OB edge & compare the 30 degree angle to your pocket line.

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paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can any of us really reliably differentiate between 30 degrees v 28 or 32?!

AND, who's is to say that my 30 degrees looks and is the same as your 30 degrees, or anyone else's for that matter?

Lou Figueroa

Can any of us stroke down the line from any position side of a table to pocket said/determined 30 degree'er........er.

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Y'all be sum pool play'n foo's if so.

If one of them 30 degree shots is missed, i sure hopes y'all don't blame it on +- 2 degrees determinations and consternations.

I don't know what deflection is until I don't want it and then I gots to figure out if its that or miss directionism.

Yep.
 
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