Which is a better spot

bmoretallpaul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Two players, with a little difference in ability where one needs a spot to keep the game of nine ball close so both players have to play well to win. Race to nine, 2 games on the wire or the called eight ball. Which spot is better in your opinion to give or receive.
 

Grantstew

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mike Siegel explained to me at great length in Hangelar last year why the better player is always better giving up the spot rather than games on the wire.

I think this is true with good players, as normally if you have shape on the 8, you're gonna close out the frame anyway.

If it's a couple of bangers, then the 8 is a bigger deal
 

Icon of Sin

I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...
Silver Member
Mike Siegel explained to me at great length in Hangelar last year why the better player is always better giving up the spot rather than games on the wire.

I think this is true with good players, as normally if you have shape on the 8, you're gonna close out the frame anyway.

If it's a couple of bangers, then the 8 is a bigger deal

I dont think Sigel really explained the spot that well.

Giving someone the 8ball isnt really based on the fact of the better player not running out from the 8ball. It;s more based on the weaker player having a second money ball on the table and only having to run down to 1 less ball. Plus putting the 8ball in the traditional second ball spot in a 9 ball rack, there is a great chance of it going cross side on the snap. Just have to remember to call that every time you break if you are getting the called 8.

That being said. I'd rather have the 8ball if I were the weaker player. Id rather have a slight advantage every rack in a set rather then none of the racks in the set...

See my disclaimer below.
 
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poolguy4u

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
.



If I'm the weaker player, let me call the eight ball.

Two games is not much for a run out player.





.
 

cmsmith9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If i was getting a spot, I'd prefer the ball spot. There's more pressure on my opponent to dog 2 money balls (the spot ball and the 9).
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Two players, with a little difference in ability where one needs a spot to keep the game of nine ball close so both players have to play well to win. Race to nine, 2 games on the wire or the called eight ball. Which spot is better in your opinion to give or receive.

The 'call eight' is just about like playing even....two games on the wire is a better spot.

The 'wild eight' is a little more thought provoking.....but it's complicated...
...the value changes drastically with speed of players, table conditions.....etc
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Call 8 is for suckers.

lol. That is what I was thinking but didn't want to say anything ;)

I'll take the free 2 games. those are won already and I never had to take a shot. he can't out move me, out shoot me, or shark me, or anything else to win those 2 games ;)
 

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
Race to 100 take the 8. Race to 3 take the games. Simple math.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
lol. That is what I was thinking but didn't want to say anything ;)

I'll take the free 2 games. those are won already and I never had to take a shot. he can't out move me, out shoot me, or shark me, or anything else to win those 2 games ;)

Here's is something to consider, that I think is big. When two players are close in skill, what is the purpose of the spot? It is mainly good in only one area, and that is in the mental area.

Consider this- Player A and player B have played numerous times. It has been determined that player A is a little better and usually wins.( let's say that is winning by 1 or 2 games in a race to 9) So, now we want to try and handicap it so it comes out a little more even.

At first glance, we think that a simple 2 game spot makes things all equal. But, does it really? Both players played their hearts out, and it was determined that player A usually wins. Which means, they both know that player A is the better player.

Now, assume player B got a two game spot. Player A wins the first game. Worse case scenario, player A wins the first two games. Now, the spot is gone, still have to win seven more games, and both know that player A is the better player. What do you think is going on in player B's head at this point? He no longer has any spot, and is playing even with a guy that usually beats him. Anyone care to bet on player B at this point? Odds are, he is already mentally done and lost the match at just two games into the match.

With the call 8, player B has a spot in each and every game. Each game he gets a chance to make an early 9 or an early 8. No matter the score, he still mentally has a spot going for him.

So, which to give? It totally depends on the two players. What is their skill level in reality? Do they run out, or do they each get several turns at the table? (makes a huge difference) How experienced are the players mentally?

For me, I have always preferred to give up the two games on the wire. I have seen it too many times where I gave up the game spot, won the first couple of games, and then told my opponent "now the spot is gone, now we get to play even" and watch them fall apart.
 
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prewarhero

guess my avatar
Silver Member
I really don't think either is good enough. For the record, I would need the 7. Just sayin...
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Here's is something to consider, that I think is big. When two players are close in skill, what is the purpose of the spot? It is mainly good in only one area, and that is in the mental area.

Consider this- Player A and player B have played numerous times. It has been determined that player A is a little better and usually wins.( let's say that is winning by 1 or 2 games in a race to 9) So, now we want to try and handicap it so it comes out a little more even.

At first glance, we think that a simple 2 game spot makes things all equal. But, does it really? Both players played their hearts out, and it was determined that player A usually wins. Which means, they both know that player A is the better player.

Now, assume player B got a two game spot. Player A wins the first game. Worse case scenario, player A wins the first two games. Now, the spot is gone, still have to win seven more games, and both know that player A is the better player. What do you think is going on in player B's head at this point? He no longer has any spot, and is playing even with a guy that usually beats him. Anyone care to bet on player B at this point? Odds are, he is already mentally done and lost the match at just two games into the match.

With the call 8, player B has a spot in each and every game. Each game he gets a chance to make an early 9 or an early 8. No matter the score, he still mentally has a spot going for him.

So, which to give? It totally depends on the two players. What is their skill level in reality? Do they run out, or do they each get several turns at the table? (makes a huge difference) How experienced are the players mentally?

For me, I have always preferred to give up the two games on the wire. I have seen it too many times where I gave up the game spot, won the first couple of games, and then told my opponent "now the spot is gone, now we get to play even" and watch them fall apart.


Good points Neil. Of course, if you lost the first 2 games, you're down 4 ;)

But, if only getting the 8, I'll take the games. Now, give me the 7 and I'll pass on the games ;) It depends on situation and such. Tried to get the 7 from a stone cold killer in the area, and he passed. He wanted to give me games ;) He finally offered 4 games in race to 10, on a Diamond bar box. I wanted the 7. He would not budge, neither would I, so no play. It was not even for a lot of money, $200. He won back to back state titles and doesn't want to give up the 7 ? fuggin nit ;) Only kidding, he's a great guy !!
 

cubswin

Just call me Joe...
Silver Member
Two players, with a little difference in ability where one needs a spot to keep the game of nine ball close so both players have to play well to win. Race to nine, 2 games on the wire or the called eight ball. Which spot is better in your opinion to give or receive.

I'd rather have the 8 in this situation. My reasoning is I"m going to make it a couple of times on the break more than likely. At least I did the last few times I got it. Really depends on the skill levels I think more than anything.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
I'd rather have the 8 in this situation. My reasoning is I"m going to make it a couple of times on the break more than likely. At least I did the last few times I got it. Really depends on the skill levels I think more than anything.

You aren't the only one in this thread that's sleeping what the ball spot is in the OP.
.....it's the CALL 8
Big difference from the WILD 8
 

TheMarsMan

Nice Gun!
Silver Member
Good points Neil. Of course, if you lost the first 2 games, you're down 4 ;)

But, if only getting the 8, I'll take the games. Now, give me the 7 and I'll pass on the games ;) It depends on situation and such. Tried to get the 7 from a stone cold killer in the area, and he passed. He wanted to give me games ;) He finally offered 4 games in race to 10, on a Diamond bar box. I wanted the 7. He would not budge, neither would I, so no play. It was not even for a lot of money, $200. He won back to back state titles and doesn't want to give up the 7 ? fuggin nit ;) Only kidding, he's a great guy !!

Four games on the wire is a lot more of a spot on a bar table to a good player than the 7. Think about it he would have to beat you 10 to 5 to win! He has to win 2 to 1, do you really think getting the seven will win you more than four games in a race to ten set? How many times do you get to the seven that you can't run out? How many times are you going to make the seven on the break or out of turn? I would bet that any B or better player would get a bigger benefit from four games on the wire than the seven ball.
 

TheMarsMan

Nice Gun!
Silver Member
I'd rather have the 8 in this situation. My reasoning is I"m going to make it a couple of times on the break more than likely. At least I did the last few times I got it. Really depends on the skill levels I think more than anything.

I will rack and I will bet a lot that you won't make a call ball two or more times in a race to nine set.

Two games on the wire in a race to nine is less of a spot than the call eight on a tight nine foot table for a C player.

If you play better than C speed or the table is easy I would much rather have two games on the wire. With that spot they have to beat you 9 to 6 or 3 to 2 games which is very tough to do if you play close to the same speed.
 
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