usapl ?

I received a text today from a friend...we play on the same masters team... saying he is starting a usapl league here next month and asked me to join and I accepted. The only thing I know about the league is that it is owned by CSI ( mark griffin ) which also owns bcapl.

For those that are aware of my posting history does it surprise you that this apa fan boy is joining usapl also ? :grin-square: I also happened to join tap a couple of months ago. So far I am really enjoying that league.

About the only thing I found out from him so far is that the results of our matches will be reported to Fargo rate. I am really curious what level this apa 5/6 can attain under the Fargo rating system and how well I will fare against opponents in that league.

I am kicking butt in tap but being new am probably under rated right now. 4-2 in 8 ball and 6-0 in 9 ball.

Any way...back to usapl. I would love to hear from guys that play in this league what they like and perhaps dont like about it.

And any unique rules I need to be aware of. I always try to learn all the rules of any league I play in and one of my pet peeves is when I encounter people that have played in a league a long time dont know the rules as well as I do being a newbie.

TeeA said:

didn't like alternate break and definitely fargo rate. your rating will go up and out of control if you leave the island.

Click to expand...

Alternate break huh ? Can you expand on your comment about Fargo rate ?

mikepage said:

I don't play in USAPL, but I can make a few comments

Here is an example of some stats from a division
http://lms.fargorate.com/PublicRepo...visionId=88dbbe9a-7e77-4a3b-a64c-a6770143d86d

If you click on schedule/results, you can view scoresheets. In these player 1 on the first team played a match against player 1 on the second team, etc

Looking at the first scoresheet, Rob J, a 491 plays Roy P, a 566 and the race is 63 to 85. That means they are playing 8-ball games, accumulating 14 points for a win and the number of balls pocket for a loss until one of them reaches the number.

Nobody is looking up ratings or filling out a scoresheet or doing arithmetic: all these numbers go in with use of a mobile scoring app, so somebody's phone or tablet -- and they go into FargoRate same day.

I am definitely curious to see what you think lorider; I know you've experienced several systems. Frankly I think this one is the nuts; it is run by people and an organization with hearts and minds in the right place and engines revving. I see USAPL as having more potential to actually grow pool than any other effort.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info and the link mike

Points based 8 ball huh ? Maybe I can deal with that better than i did when I joined bcapl years ago. When I joined bcapl I thought playing 8 ball for points was the craziest thing I ever heard of. After playing apa 9 ball for years now maybe my out look will be different this time . I dunno ...being a bar banger most of my life I just think there is something intrinsically wrong with playing 8 ball for points lol.

I will gladly give you my opinion after playing in it for a little while. Ever since I first learned about Fargo rate I have been curious about how I would rate in that system.

I can understand why apa will probably never be a part of Fargo rate but was a little disappointed when I joined tap that they did not report to Fargo.

I have not went to the link provided yet ( but definitely will ) and trying not to be tok negative I just hope I dont encounter what I did in bcapl about handicap manipulation.

I never got involved in the bcapl nationals thread since I dont play bcapl but their scoring system leaves a little to be desired and maybe usapl addressed that.
I could see why people were all over the place as far as their handicaps were concerned . Getting off track here and that subject really does not belong in this thread but I do have a concern about it being as bcapl and usapl both are points based 8 ball without a scoring system in place to ascertain how they accumulated those points during a match.

In apa its simple.....although the scoresheet seems perplexing to some. I played apa 9 ball last night and I scored 16 points in one inning ( I believe my highest ever ) and still lost. In apa I could still possibly go up after achieving that many points in one inning even though I lost the match. Wouldn't go up in bcapl under those circumstances and not sure about usapl yet.

Regardless I really enjoy playing all leagues just as I enjoy playing on all brands and sizes of tables. After all...variety is the spice of life ....and i realm think it makes you a better all around player.

hang-the-9 said:

A 6 in APA 9 ball is about a B player, in Fargo that would make you about 500-550. Getting to the 600 range you are in the very high B+ and A players. 700+ is A+ speed.

I love the USAPL formats, the rules are pretty much real rules, the ratings are very granular so you can have a B+ and an A- and there is a difference in rank, in the APA you can both be 7s. The format makes a win count as a win instead of just an extra couple of points for the money ball. You sink a 9 in USAPL it's 14 points, in 9 ball you get 2 instead of 1. APA you may as well be playing straight pool, who cares if you choke and miss the 9, it's just 2 points. You choke in USAPL you pay for it, just like in real life.

The national event is pretty nice also, all Diamond tables instead of the Valleys APA uses. Depending on your area you can even have a sanctioned straight pool and one pocket league, which my area tried out for a bit but ended up dropping because of low participation. There is also 10 ball you can play, again, depending on your area local operators. We have a Masters 10 ball division that is invitation only for serious players and that is strict 10 ball called shot called safe rules.

Click to expand...

B player ? You mean I am not a banger any more ? :grin-square:

Thanks for the in depth info. Just what I was looking for. I don't k ow what all he is offering so far...i can imagine its not going to be much more than 8 and maybe 9 ball to start.

Your area sounds like what Napa offered here a few years ago but sadly that league never got off the ground for several reasons. Truth be told...if I had to pick his one league to play in it would be Napa. I loved the laggers choice format . And yes we played call shot call safe in 10 ball.

tucson9ball said:

From what I understand, USAPL is a good format for beginner to mid-level players.
I don't know all the details so I will leave it at that.....

Click to expand...

You were the first one to post and obviously the first one I read but waited to reply to you as I thought you post was intriguing and had to think about it.


I fully understand the concept of bein reluctant to give an opinion on something when you know you don't have all the details. Refreshing to see such a post on this forum .:grin-square:

I hate t put you on the spot but I would love to hear what details you may know that inspired you to say ....from what you understand ita a league for beginners to mid level players.

Just curious as to why usapl would be considered mid level at most and bcapl is ( from what I read on here ) is for serious players. As i have just learned today ...they are both points based 8 ball formats.


Do they have different rules...handicapping systems ?

mikepage said:

I don't play in USAPL, but I can make a few comments

Here is an example of some stats from a division
http://lms.fargorate.com/PublicRepo...visionId=88dbbe9a-7e77-4a3b-a64c-a6770143d86d

If you click on schedule/results, you can view scoresheets. In these player 1 on the first team played a match against player 1 on the second team, etc

Looking at the first scoresheet, Rob J, a 491 plays Roy P, a 566 and the race is 63 to 85. That means they are playing 8-ball games, accumulating 14 points for a win and the number of balls pocket for a loss until one of them reaches the number.

Nobody is looking up ratings or filling out a scoresheet or doing arithmetic: all these numbers go in with use of a mobile scoring app, so somebody's phone or tablet -- and they go into FargoRate same day.

I am definitely curious to see what you think lorider; I know you've experienced several systems. Frankly I think this one is the nuts; it is run by people and an organization with hearts and minds in the right place and engines revving. I see USAPL as having more potential to actually grow pool than any other effort.

Click to expand...

Well.mike should have looked at the link before making a few comments. :embarrassed2:

I see their scoring system is a little more detailed than bcapls was when I played it. Igs obvious what brs stands for but curious what wzs and trs means

Again...thanks for the info and link you provided .

Poolplaya9 said:

BCAPL allows their league operators a lot of latitude in formats and how they operate their leagues. Most BCAPL leagues are not handicapped or points based. Your local league is apparently one of the ones using points.

Also, none of the big BCAPL events like the state tournaments or various regional events or the nationals that I am aware of are using a points based system.

Click to expand...

Not trying to be critical of bcapl at all but it just seems like its hap hazzard at bed tgat you play by certain rules and formats at one location and go to another that has completely different rules and format. To each their own I guess but I prefer knowing that the rules and format I play under at the national level are the same as what I play under every week all year long.

Do you reckon this latitude you speak of contributes in some way to the displeasure people are experiencing when they go to nationals ?

tucson9ball said:

From what I understand, USAPL is a good format for beginner to mid-level players.
I don't know all the details so I will leave it at that.....

Click to expand...

I had some free time yesterday and thought I would visit the usapl website and read their handbook. It seems you are correct . It was mentioned that league league was geared towards beginners and mid level players.....mostly due to handicapping the way I understood it.

After reading up on the rules and format its similar to when I played bcapl.

The main differences I see are

More points for winning a match

Points for a break and run

Points for a shutout

Points for holding your player to a low points total....same as apa 9 ball.

Btw ...8 ball is points based just like bcapl was here in my area years ago.

The scoresheet goes into a little more detail than bcapl...at least when I played it. I think the added details do more to prevent sandbagging than bcapl.

Upon reading more it seems the lo has some latitude in the way he runs it but not as much as bcapl' s lo 's.

I also understand the foormat is the same at nationals ...unlike bcapl and I really like that. I prefer to pls the same format at nationals as I do every other week of the year. Same as apa does .

I believe the lack of detailed scorekeeping and changing the format at nationals leads to all the threads complaint about bcapl nationals you see on this forum year after year.

I think I am going to like it. The one thing I do like already is the fact that it reports to Fargo rate. Still going to play apa and tap though.

After a few months playing apa I may start a thread comparing my opinion of all 3. As of right now Napa has been my favorite league to play in so far. Wish it was still available in my area.

Poolplaya9 said:

No I don't think so. I don't recall hearing very many "I really hate the BCAPL nationals because they won't use the same handicapped points format that my local BCAPL league does" complaints.

Everybody knows and understands that BCAPL is not a handicapped league. I think that the way most people who are displeased with any deviations in formats tend to look at it is that they hold it against the local BCAPL league operator for choosing to use "local rules" instead of the "national rules" so to speak, but even then it is kind of hard for them to argue having too much of a problem with it since they chose to sign up and play in their local league anyway. That's my take.

Click to expand...

The reason I mentioned bcapl at all in my post was to compare both leagues since they are both owned by csi.

Just wanted to clear that up before I go any farther with my post. You state everybody knows bcapl is not a handicapped league. Well I beg to differ. You are assigned a " handicap " in bcapl and when you play in nationals you are assigned a bracket to play in according to your " handicap " .

I dont recall any one saying they were displeased that the nationals were not ran like their local leagues either. I stated it was my preference. However there darn sure were a lot of complaints about under " handicapped " players at nationals. It seems to be the prevailing theme of every thread regarding bcapl nationals every year.

I could be wrong but I think its entirely plausible that you could have people fall through the cracks every year at nationals due to the fact that there is no structure nation wide at the local level in bcapl like just about every other league has.