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07-13-2017, 11:02 AM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
Well, I hope you stay afloat with a strong wind at your back!
I will and I'm going to give it every chance possible to succeed within my own methodology.

I got a severe problem with my head coming up when i pull the trigger. Even when i think ive stayed down, i don't.

I found one thread in here with some interesting suggestions. If i sink with this ship, if nothing else, I'm going to learn to keep my head down better than anyone else on the planet, even if it means never pocketing another ball for the next year.

I look like shyte.
  
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07-13-2017, 11:21 AM

i just noticed in film study, where i kept my head down perfectly and it may have something to do with keeping my bridging arm out more toward the straighter length, rather than bent.

Perhaps i'm too cramped in my shot execution with a bent arm. I'll figure this out.
  
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07-13-2017, 01:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by paultex View Post
I will and I'm going to give it every chance possible to succeed within my own methodology.

I got a severe problem with my head coming up when i pull the trigger. Even when i think ive stayed down, i don't.

I found one thread in here with some interesting suggestions. If i sink with this ship, if nothing else, I'm going to learn to keep my head down better than anyone else on the planet, even if it means never pocketing another ball for the next year.

I look like shyte.
Get your body and head/eyes into a lower shooting stance that allows you to see the cue ball, object ball and pocket at the same time and then, only if you allow, only your eyes will move after contact to follow the cue balls path to it's intended spot.

John


One Pocket John
St. Louis, MO.

I don't play One Pocket as much as I use to, but when I do, I play at Cue & Cushion - Overland, MO.

In Memory of Dean Higgs and Harry Sims - gone but not forgotten and thank you.

Last edited by One Pocket John; 07-13-2017 at 01:40 PM.
  
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07-13-2017, 03:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by One Pocket John View Post
Get your body and head/eyes into a lower shooting stance that allows you to see the cue ball, object ball and pocket at the same time and then, only if you allow, only your eyes will move after contact to follow the cue balls path to it's intended spot.

John
Boyyyy...John I used to be real low like that when I switched over to the dominant eye and basically started over 8 months ago and I found myself shooting at overlaps and I can't deal with that. I would start getting to lost down on shots where I would be there for a litteral minute or more sometimes.

I tried straightening my bridge arm and it does help in making my stroke more free where I don't feel like I got to get my head out of the way, but damn I feel unstable and too uncomfortable......it ain't happening.

Pressing down with the bridge hand helps and gripping further back helps too. I kept my head down much better with that and simply just forcing myself to stay down but I'll have to check my film today and see if I improved overall.

Hard to hit with more power though for anything requiring more than a firm stroke.

I'm tired. Gonna take a nap and go back in a few hours. This week has been a severe low point.
  
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07-14-2017, 10:57 AM

[QUOTE=paultex;5924771]

Pressing down with the bridge hand helps and gripping further back helps too. I kept my head down much better with that and simply just forcing myself to stay down but I'll have to check my film today and see if I improved overall.

Hard to hit with more power though for anything requiring more than a firm stroke.

It's not that difficult, constantly remind yourself when practicing what and what not to do. We remind ourselves throughout our lives to stop making the same mistakes over and over again. It may take many reminders; repetition is the key ingredient.
Reminders and Fundamentals, write it down, put it on a chalk board, cell phone notes.

If you have arm, leg, neck, head, feeling cramped, jammed up, choked, body issues etc,
YOU NEED TO OPEN UP

Pool posture begins when standing over the shot and completes after the delivery, itís a dance.
If your body is not set right or your mind is undecided you are on the road to jumping, missing, spinning, twisting, and so on, we are not smarter than our brain. Trying to trick our brain into believing that all the planets are in alignment before we pull the trigger is a losing battle. You may as well throw aiming and stroke technique in the garbage at that point.

Learn to use your Body Gait and Ape Index, you will flow and deliver more smoothly.

Imagine throwing a baseball when your body is wrapped in duct tape.

While body position is somewhat compact, it must flow evenly and smooth, play through your core.

Add a little more down pressure on your bridge for now until you find your posture, it will even out. You donít have to drive your hand through the slate, pay attention, and use the reminder.

Staying Down (Sending The Cue Ball} (Lock your chin and swing arm shoulder)
After the cue ball makes contact with the object ball send the cue ball into position with your eyes only, not your head, Keep that head still, shift your eyes . Its great if you can track the object ball to the pocket, again, shift your eyes only; it's very simple, it's just eye movement that will keep you down on the shot.
Don't over complicate or analyze.


Simple routine:
While planning the shot it's good to air stroke, it helps in finding the proper Index for the stroke delivery and feel for the speed.
Adjusting your swing hand slightly, even 1/8 of an inch could make a huge difference in opening up to where you belong and finding your gait. Feel the stroke. Lock the chin and shoulder.

Get your feet under you and your gait in free position, foot position is very important, open your index. Pocket the ball, keep your head still, and send the cue ball into position with your eyes. "DONE" It's a simple dance with just a few steps and small eye movement.
RINSE AND REPEAT

Play inside the cue ball along the crease, within the quarter, center ball and down, look for clean hits. Power will not be a problem any longer.

Sincerely: SS


I almost made that shot.
You don't know what you don't know until you know it.
  
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Dan White
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07-14-2017, 04:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by paultex View Post
Hard to hit with more power though for anything requiring more than a firm stroke.
I didn't really read back in the thread to see exactly what the issue is, but it sounds like you have a problem with picking your head up. Your statement above suggests that you might be dropping your elbow completely during the stroke. When you do that there is a tendency to try and cram your whole arm through the space between the surface of the table and your head. You can't do it, so it causes your head to pop up. Try a few shots without dropping the elbow so much. As you get more comfortable with it you will begin to coordinate the muscles better so that you can still get good power when needed.

Just a quick thought, maybe off base.


Dan White
  
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paultex
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07-14-2017, 09:01 PM

[QUOTE=SmoothStroke;5925519]
Quote:
Originally Posted by paultex View Post

Pressing down with the bridge hand helps and gripping further back helps too. I kept my head down much better with that and simply just forcing myself to stay down but I'll have to check my film today and see if I improved overall.

Hard to hit with more power though for anything requiring more than a firm stroke.

It's not that difficult, constantly remind yourself when practicing what and what not to do. We remind ourselves throughout our lives to stop making the same mistakes over and over again. It may take many reminders; repetition is the key ingredient.
Reminders and Fundamentals, write it down, put it on a chalk board, cell phone notes.

If you have arm, leg, neck, head, feeling cramped, jammed up, choked, body issues etc,
YOU NEED TO OPEN UP

Pool posture begins when standing over the shot and completes after the delivery, itís a dance.
If your body is not set right or your mind is undecided you are on the road to jumping, missing, spinning, twisting, and so on, we are not smarter than our brain. Trying to trick our brain into believing that all the planets are in alignment before we pull the trigger is a losing battle. You may as well throw aiming and stroke technique in the garbage at that point.

Learn to use your Body Gait and Ape Index, you will flow and deliver more smoothly.

Imagine throwing a baseball when your body is wrapped in duct tape.

While body position is somewhat compact, it must flow evenly and smooth, play through your core.

Add a little more down pressure on your bridge for now until you find your posture, it will even out. You donít have to drive your hand through the slate, pay attention, and use the reminder.

Staying Down (Sending The Cue Ball} (Lock your chin and swing arm shoulder)
After the cue ball makes contact with the object ball send the cue ball into position with your eyes only, not your head, Keep that head still, shift your eyes . Its great if you can track the object ball to the pocket, again, shift your eyes only; it's very simple, it's just eye movement that will keep you down on the shot.
Don't over complicate or analyze.


Simple routine:
While planning the shot it's good to air stroke, it helps in finding the proper Index for the stroke delivery and feel for the speed.
Adjusting your swing hand slightly, even 1/8 of an inch could make a huge difference in opening up to where you belong and finding your gait. Feel the stroke. Lock the chin and shoulder.

Get your feet under you and your gait in free position, foot position is very important, open your index. Pocket the ball, keep your head still, and send the cue ball into position with your eyes. "DONE" It's a simple dance with just a few steps and small eye movement.
RINSE AND REPEAT

Play inside the cue ball along the crease, within the quarter, center ball and down, look for clean hits. Power will not be a problem any longer.

Sincerely: SS
Thank you and yes, when in bad execution or result, I revert back to quarter center and vertical center.

When you say air stroke, do you mean behind cb in address or a ghost ball width to the left or right of cb to see where your follow through will go through the cb?

I do that often when leaning over or stretching for a shot or when I infrequently use a bridge. It helps a lot.

My problem is often my dialing in pre strokes behind cb are good but then when I pull the trigger, a misdirect occurs or my stroke itself can never get straight no matter how much I stand up and start over and pick a different alignment.

I'm working on stroke elbow position right now where I have it cocked out to the point where it can't really go out further without really feeling weird. Ironically, what feels too cocked over to the right is actually in good alignment and subsequently, the stroke only has one direction it can go but emphasizing this is also making my rear shoulder sore but I'm going to persue this direction for now because......

My stroke does feel out of the way of my head and the results are more consistent. I'm going to start filming right now.
  
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paultex
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07-14-2017, 09:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
I didn't really read back in the thread to see exactly what the issue is, but it sounds like you have a problem with picking your head up. Your statement above suggests that you might be dropping your elbow completely during the stroke. When you do that there is a tendency to try and cram your whole arm through the space between the surface of the table and your head. You can't do it, so it causes your head to pop up. Try a few shots without dropping the elbow so much. As you get more comfortable with it you will begin to coordinate the muscles better so that you can still get good power when needed.

Just a quick thought, maybe off base.
Yep and my reply to smooth stroke seems to be a positive direction. Also when I emphasize cocking my elbow out, it raises my elbow in a better higher position and I can aim much lower on the cb for draw without miscueing.

It's hard to always cock the elbow out because it feels so unnatural but I got to persue this direction and after filming in a few minutes, I'm going to observe the mechanics.
  
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Dan White
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07-14-2017, 09:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by paultex View Post
Yep and my reply to smooth stroke seems to be a positive direction. Also when I emphasize cocking my elbow out, it raises my elbow in a better higher position and I can aim much lower on the cb for draw without miscueing.

It's hard to always cock the elbow out because it feels so unnatural but I got to persue this direction and after filming in a few minutes, I'm going to observe the mechanics.
If you ever want a second opinion pm me and I'll send you my email. I've been tinkering around with what you are doing for years, literally, and only now am starting to feel like I have it figured out. The problem is that there are so many variables and you have to learn what happens when you change something like your elbow angle or your eye position, etc. Some variables are important, others not so much.

My criteria has been that the stroke has to be straight. I don't care how well I'm pocketing balls. If the stroke isn't straight then I keep working on a fix. For me, the Coach's Eye app is an absolute must in providing feedback. I can help with stuff like that if you want. You can go down a black hole if you don't get your camera set up perfectly. The camera angle can fool you if it isn't placed precisely, for instance.

Good luck.


Dan White
  
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07-14-2017, 10:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
If you ever want a second opinion pm me and I'll send you my email. I've been tinkering around with what you are doing for years, literally, and only now am starting to feel like I have it figured out. The problem is that there are so many variables and you have to learn what happens when you change something like your elbow angle or your eye position, etc. Some variables are important, others not so much.

My criteria has been that the stroke has to be straight. I don't care how well I'm pocketing balls. If the stroke isn't straight then I keep working on a fix. For me, the Coach's Eye app is an absolute must in providing feedback. I can help with stuff like that if you want. You can go down a black hole if you don't get your camera set up perfectly. The camera angle can fool you if it isn't placed precisely, for instance.

Good luck.
Yes I have found it difficult to line the camera up with a straight shot the first time I used it but now I just film my practice since I found other flaws that can be quickly addressed.

I will take you up on your offer when the time comes and I've found that: analyze.......COMPLETE:

FACT: The time ALWAYS comes.

Thanks and yes keeping my right elbow cocked out helps a great deal and it's not feeling so awkward any more and yes I do know an inconsistency in this area is a major problem.
  
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Dan White
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07-15-2017, 10:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by paultex View Post
Yes I have found it difficult to line the camera up with a straight shot the first time I used it but now I just film my practice since I found other flaws that can be quickly addressed.

I will take you up on your offer when the time comes and I've found that: analyze.......COMPLETE:

FACT: The time ALWAYS comes.

Thanks and yes keeping my right elbow cocked out helps a great deal and it's not feeling so awkward any more and yes I do know an inconsistency in this area is a major problem.
FACT: You'll get there if you just keep at it!


Dan White
  
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07-15-2017, 10:45 AM

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FACT: You'll get there if you just keep at it!
FACT:

If not within one year, I quit at this point of outward thinking.

FACT: I work harder than most but I'm not working hard enough.

FACT: That last statement is unfortunately true.

FACT: I personally don't know if I could train hard enough.

FACT: That last statement of rhetorical concept is a good thing and there's no doubt in my mind i am going to try and see if it's possible to work hard enough and I must admit, even what I think is going to be much more effort than I have ever put in, will still not come close to what's possible for "effort".

FACT: Effort is the same as "execution". It encompasses a total gambit of requirements.

CONJECTURE: Think about it, when you're away from the table and smelling the roses and holding your sweetheart's hand, I whisper sweet nothings in her ear, that she looks very beautiful today through my dominant eye. My other eye says to her that she looks like she decreased in mass lately.

See, where does the training stop if you work hard enough? I personally haven't come close and enough of this typing shyte, I got work to do.

.....off to the tables.
  
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07-15-2017, 01:07 PM

I think the word fact is being over used here...And thats a fact jack.


Everyone has photographic memory; some just don't have the film.
  
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BC21
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07-15-2017, 02:45 PM

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......... away from the table and smelling the roses and holding your sweetheart's hand, I whisper sweet nothings in her ear, that she looks very beautiful today through my dominant eye. My other eye says to her that she looks like she decreased in mass lately.
This is one of the funniest things I've ever read!

I remember dating a girl back when I was around 23 years old that hated for me to play pool. "All you do is play pool and party with your band!" she'd say. And she right. She was so jealous of the pool tables that I had to lie whenever I had a game lined up. I'd say I was going to help my brother work on his car, and then run straight to the pool hall. It would be noon on a Saturday. Then Sunday morning she'd wake me up, and I'd still be dressed in the same clothes from the day before. "What's this?" she'd ask, pointing at blue chalk marks on my shirt and that undeniable table grime buildup on the palm and fingertips of my left hand, my bridge hand.

Damn, those were long arguments. And then finally we'd make up, and while I'm holding her and kissing her my mind shifts back to a shot or two from last night, and I wonder if that guy is going to come back and play some more later tonight tomorrow. I give her another kiss and tell myself I'll wash my hands and brush off the chalk next time.


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Dan White
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07-15-2017, 03:45 PM

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Originally Posted by paultex View Post
FACT:

FACT: I personally don't know if I could train hard enough.
This is often how I feel when I'm trying to fix a stroke problem at the table:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF6p4tXWPFU

And, yes BC21 is correct. FACT: you have an interesting way with words.


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