My vote goes to Mr. Wilson.
Who best to head a new Players org?
- Thread starter Nostroke
- Start date
"Because he's the hero the pool world deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So, we'll hunt him, because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian."
- Commissioner James Gordon
My vote is a collaboration between Mark Griffin and Mark Wilson.
- Commissioner James Gordon
My vote is a collaboration between Mark Griffin and Mark Wilson.
The "leader" should be someone that is business focused without the emotional baggage of the past. I believe an effort should be made to find a non-pool player to fit the bill.
Larry Hubbard and his partner I forget his name did a pretty good job.100% correct...It has already been proven, (many times) there is NO pool player in the world, with the necessary management skills to succeed in such a venture !..It may also be impossible to find someone well qualified, who would have any interest at all, in even trying !..Henceforth, the dilemma continues...Mr. Bond said it well.."I will check with my doctor to make sure I'm not crazy for even being interested in getting involved."
PS..No amount of hand wringing, or wishing, will make it come about either !..It would HAVE to be funded by the player's..and when have you ever seen a pool player, who thought beyond tomorrow ? (6 hrs. is a stretch)
You must not like him very much.
Yes, extremely important!
Yes, that's exactly what I meant. An experienced executive would know that he/she can't "demand" more prize money...he has to create it. Union-type "agree to our demands or we go on strike" are meaningless in this environment. You have to create value which then creates wealth.
IMHO that's a recipe for disaster. There isn't one player -- current or former -- that doesn't have tons of baggage of friends/enemies and pool successes/failures. Every one of those is a weight around his/her neck. A good executive could learn what the players want in about a week and the structure of the industry in a month.
This.
Furthermore the people in the pool industry currently are all well engrained into the thinking and systems that have seen this sport go backwards for decades. We have some people who care, and who try to promote and better pool, but even the best of them are generally failing and this sport continues it's downward spiral into obscurity.
In conclusion, the person who should take over a players organization is not currently in pool. They are not a player, they are not a fan, they are not a promoter. They are likely someone from another far more successful sport that knows the ins and outs of how to manage players organizations and they have connections outside of pool that could benefit this sport. They know what it takes for a sport to meet with success and they will not be controlled by individual players within the organization who attempt to exert control and curb the necessary changes that are needed for pool to finally turn the corner and see some growth and an increase in popularity.
Last, but not least. A players organization is not there just to ***** at promoters about more added money and escrow agreements. In fact that is not the place of a players organization at all, that is more the mandate of a sanctioning body, which pool also lacks in any real, meaningful, and effective sense atm. Players organizations in this sport have gone FAR off the path of what they should truly be and what they should truly do. They did that party due to the lack of proper bodies to deal with certain things, and partly because members of the players organization saw the PO as a way to exert control and authority over certain things and they liked having that power.
I don't know if any of you have actually met SJM, Stu, but after meeting him and playing him, he would have my vote. He's an executive type with a very cool head. He's keenly interested in pro pool and has been actively involved in the women pro ranks. He's also quite experienced in the business world. I'm sure he's too busy to take on something like this, but I could see him as a commissioner. Oh yeah, he shoots pretty straight too.
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A large part of the problem is that league pool is a social event. No one is writing down their goofs so they can go off by themselves later and drill them until they own them. All of the major sports have areas set aside for real, honest practise. In pool when you bang them around with your friends for an hour or so, most people will believe they just spent their time practising. I find that to be sad. Small wonder it takes people many years to get good at this game. Most people never do get that good. During league night have you ever seen one friend take a video of another friend so he could study it and figure out what to do better. Or maybe to give to an instructor to help him get better. Doing that once a month or so would do wonders for your game. I have not seen that even once during league night.
And walking around the room on league night you will hear so many excuses its almost funny. Nobody ever explained to them that when you make an excuse for yourself your ability suffers, excuses even cause people to quit altogeather. On the other hand when you write down what you did wrong( You are probably just sitting anyway.) and then later drill it until you own it, then you have something which will help you grow in your sport.
If any one is interested I have a lot more. Jim S.
And walking around the room on league night you will hear so many excuses its almost funny. Nobody ever explained to them that when you make an excuse for yourself your ability suffers, excuses even cause people to quit altogeather. On the other hand when you write down what you did wrong( You are probably just sitting anyway.) and then later drill it until you own it, then you have something which will help you grow in your sport.
If any one is interested I have a lot more. Jim S.
Strictly a business man is not the answer. The leader MUST have followed pool for years. We have had "business men" jump in with the worst decisions ever-no not pro organization leaders but would be Promoters. If you don't know pool you have no shot. We ARE different.
Keven Trudeau, The Bonus Ball guys, The Furniture Salesmen that tried to put on the Galveston Extrava-flopza- The business men of the the Hilton Hotel Chain (Tour)-All of them were totally clueless and never had a chance. I'll be nice and leave it at that.
We need a pool/biz guy.
Keven Trudeau, The Bonus Ball guys, The Furniture Salesmen that tried to put on the Galveston Extrava-flopza- The business men of the the Hilton Hotel Chain (Tour)-All of them were totally clueless and never had a chance. I'll be nice and leave it at that.
We need a pool/biz guy.
Ya know, I'm gonna pick 2 sets of 2 people! The first would be my fantasy pick, Billy incardona and Danny diliberto I think they make a fantastic team when it comes to commentating and I think they themselves can draw a crowd!
But, my serious side would probably pick (already picked) Mark Wilson and Mark Griffin, and throw Scott Smith in the mix! But,,,,, very difficult task at hand!
If said this in other threads, it's the players that need to learn how to sell themselves! 95% of them can't do it, and this my friends is the reason why pool is where it is (pro pool that is)! You have "other" people trying to do things for pro pool except the pro players themselves!
The pros need to learn how to market themselves and sell themselves instead of getting in the gambling aspect of pool! Don't get me wrong, I love to gamble as much as the next person and I'm not saying they shouldn't gamble. They should prioritize there livelihood!
I know that is tough with the current situation, but if the pros are waiting for "us" to do something,,,, they gonna be waiting a long time!!
I think they make a fantastic team when it comes to commentating and I think they themselves can draw a crowd!But, my serious side would probably pick (already picked) Mark Wilson and Mark Griffin, and throw Scott Smith in the mix! But,,,,, very difficult task at hand!
If said this in other threads, it's the players that need to learn how to sell themselves! 95% of them can't do it, and this my friends is the reason why pool is where it is (pro pool that is)! You have "other" people trying to do things for pro pool except the pro players themselves!
The pros need to learn how to market themselves and sell themselves instead of getting in the gambling aspect of pool! Don't get me wrong, I love to gamble as much as the next person and I'm not saying they shouldn't gamble. They should prioritize there livelihood!
I know that is tough with the current situation, but if the pros are waiting for "us" to do something,,,, they gonna be waiting a long time!!
I see your point, but bad example. Pool players would kill (figuratively speaking) for this kind of money. How is there so much money in Badminton but not pool? One big issue is that goods in pool are durable: my Diamond table will outlast me, and my 1993 Schon plays better (for me) than any cue I could buy.
On the other hand, if I play tennis, golf, squash, badminton, and most other equipment-based sports, then I'm willing to buy new equipment just about every year to gain a small edge.
Basically, in a sport where older equipment is better, sponsorship money will be weak. When newer equipment is better, or believed to be better, sponsorship money will be stronger.
This, of course, is just one of many factors.
Cory
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Touche. I knew it was actually very popular in certain countries same as cricket is, and definitely has more crowd appeal than pool...if people are honest in their assessment.
If BB stops his mumbling long speeches. Would he have chance? :thumbup:
I saw a match for 8k last weekend and they routinely play for $1000 a game.
Shuffleboard is an amazing game when you see the best in the world play. The place I play a lot of pool tournaments have the best players in the world and they gamble HIGH!!!
They will play anyone for as much as they can haul down to Ft. Worth. I saw a match for 8k last weekend and they routinely play for $1000 a game.
lost;5159164[B said:
Shuffleboard is an amazing game when you see the best in the world play. The place I play a lot of pool tournaments have the best players in the world and they gamble HIGH!!!
They will play anyone for as much as they can haul down to Ft. Worth. I saw a match for 8k last weekend and they routinely play for $1000 a game.
Those who don't learn from the past are condemned to repeat it. Why did the previous attempts at organizing a professional players organization failed to take off? For the ones that did partially succeed, why did they eventually fail?
If Kevin Trudeau ran IPT as a legitimate business, would it still survive today or the concept was doomed to failure, no matter how much money was poured in?
As an example of a successful pro tour, I thought the Women's Professional Billiard Association had a great idea. Pool, pun intended, resources together to pay for video post-production, and then give videos to ESPN to air for free. This kept pool in the public eye.
Whomever comes out to lead a professional players organization needs to realize pool has many sub-cultures. Each sub-culture tends to think they're THE pool culture, and fails to respect other pool cultures. I see this on AZ all the time, each sub-culture blaming each other for the demise of pool. A recent thread about a Pro player ranting that amateurs can pony up $600 to play in the Pro ranks.
In my area, the poolhalls that survive recognize the different types of customers, and proportion of income each brings in, and caters accordingly; Pro Players (tournamets), Action players, league players, and social/bangers.
If Kevin Trudeau ran IPT as a legitimate business, would it still survive today or the concept was doomed to failure, no matter how much money was poured in?
As an example of a successful pro tour, I thought the Women's Professional Billiard Association had a great idea. Pool, pun intended, resources together to pay for video post-production, and then give videos to ESPN to air for free. This kept pool in the public eye.
Whomever comes out to lead a professional players organization needs to realize pool has many sub-cultures. Each sub-culture tends to think they're THE pool culture, and fails to respect other pool cultures. I see this on AZ all the time, each sub-culture blaming each other for the demise of pool. A recent thread about a Pro player ranting that amateurs can pony up $600 to play in the Pro ranks.
In my area, the poolhalls that survive recognize the different types of customers, and proportion of income each brings in, and caters accordingly; Pro Players (tournamets), Action players, league players, and social/bangers.
I only see two ways pro pool in the US ever gets organized. The long shot is the IPT model where someone comes in with so much money or so much outside potential to grow the money (by outside potential I mean TV or a lot of eyeballs) that most people will jump on the train for fear of being left behind.
The other longer shot is a core group of players get together and do their own tour and bootstrap their way up to building something. This is actually doable now with an unheard of level of cooperation and work from certain pro's. Oscar has created an amateur tour out of not much but his reputation and pure hard work. He is finding that now that people see its real he is getting some support. I believe the same would happen with a pro tour.
The key would be a solid structure and commitment from the players to go at least two or three years without making much money. With the decline of events over the last few years this is actually becoming more possible as most guys are not making much now anyway.
The current promoters in the game are not going to do it. If they could it would already have been done. Its possible a current promoter could do something if they had outside resources like money and/or big media provided by a partner but history has shown that doesn't really happen. As noted above outside business people by themselves have a poor track record and generally make things worse over the long term. Every time they screw up its one more thing for the next potential outside interest to find on google and say "I'm not touching that mess of a game".
Bottom line is there simply is not that many people willing to watch pool in this country and even fewer who will pay for it. To change that will require some sort of major shift in how things are done and most probably a lot of money. Even then there are things launched every year in other games/sports with millions of dollars behind it that fail to attract enough eyeballs to sustain itself in a culture increasingly filled with things vying for peoples attention and money.
I think the bootstrap method of a small tour of pro's with a solid social media campaign, good/free streaming, and the willingness to understand the guys playing today are not the ones who are going to reap the big rewards is the most viable option to grow something for the future. Actually most of the pieces are already in and around the game. But it seems in pool no one really wants to crawl before they run. Its either big money, big promises or its not worth the time.
The other longer shot is a core group of players get together and do their own tour and bootstrap their way up to building something. This is actually doable now with an unheard of level of cooperation and work from certain pro's. Oscar has created an amateur tour out of not much but his reputation and pure hard work. He is finding that now that people see its real he is getting some support. I believe the same would happen with a pro tour.
The key would be a solid structure and commitment from the players to go at least two or three years without making much money. With the decline of events over the last few years this is actually becoming more possible as most guys are not making much now anyway.
The current promoters in the game are not going to do it. If they could it would already have been done. Its possible a current promoter could do something if they had outside resources like money and/or big media provided by a partner but history has shown that doesn't really happen. As noted above outside business people by themselves have a poor track record and generally make things worse over the long term. Every time they screw up its one more thing for the next potential outside interest to find on google and say "I'm not touching that mess of a game".
Bottom line is there simply is not that many people willing to watch pool in this country and even fewer who will pay for it. To change that will require some sort of major shift in how things are done and most probably a lot of money. Even then there are things launched every year in other games/sports with millions of dollars behind it that fail to attract enough eyeballs to sustain itself in a culture increasingly filled with things vying for peoples attention and money.
I think the bootstrap method of a small tour of pro's with a solid social media campaign, good/free streaming, and the willingness to understand the guys playing today are not the ones who are going to reap the big rewards is the most viable option to grow something for the future. Actually most of the pieces are already in and around the game. But it seems in pool no one really wants to crawl before they run. Its either big money, big promises or its not worth the time.