APA skill ranking?

Hail Mary Shot · Mar 30, 2008

I'm not sure how does that APA league or some players in the APA, rank the players based on their pool skills. I know that the rankings will be based upon how you performed in your matches or simply your W-L record standing, but do you guys have any thoughts on what pool skills do this people possess from the beginner's rank to 1-10? or simply saying what kind of pool skill, knowledge and performance does each category have?

you are free to give your ideas regarding this matter. any detailed info would be greatly appreciated. tnx.

pooltchr · Mar 30, 2008

APA rankings are based on several factors including W/L record, skill level of opponents, number of innings played, number of defensive shots, etc. The APA uses your best 10 out of the last 20 matches played to figure your level.
Steve

mr8ball · Mar 30, 2008

In our VNEA league we use a 10 point system. Each ball is a point and the eight is 3 points. At the end of 3 weeks they take the adverage of the games played and the balls made to come up with an adverge. In our APA it is hard because it really depends on the compators in your area. I am an 8 in our 9 ball league but when we get to vegas i could not play as a 8 there. In other area's across the USA the players are much better then the players i play with here. That sucks for me but thats the way it is.

SCCues · Mar 30, 2008

pooltchr said:
APA rankings are based on several factors including W/L record, skill level of opponents, number of innings played, number of defensive shots, etc. The APA uses your best 10 out of the last 20 matches played to figure your level.
Steve

And don't forget the sandbagging factor, which is something they'll never be able to stop. It's so bad where I live that it takes all of the fun out of playing in the APA.......

James

RunoutalloverU · Mar 30, 2008

hasnt this been discussed ad nasuem?

kaznj · Mar 30, 2008

Pooltchr, I didn't think the opponent's skill level mattered. I thought it was just wins and innings. Of course if you play a strong player your innings will not be as high while playing a lower level player usually drives up the innings.

pooltchr · Mar 31, 2008

Not really. I track my innings per game, and it's usually about 1.8 regardless of who I am playing. I usually end up being matched up with a 5 6 or 7, although occasionally someone will throw a 2 against me because of the weight I would be giving up. Either way, I end up with about the same number of innings.
Steve

stevea · Mar 31, 2008

Here is a link that gives you some info but doesn't actually tell you how handicapping is done because they don't want you to actually try it.

http://www.poolplayers.com/equalizer.html

It does have to do w/l, innings and defensive shots and it has to do with apa tournaments. After the league operator say me play in the US amateur championships (apa event) he said my handicap would never move down again.

Hail Mary Shot · Mar 31, 2008

thank you for your inputs guys. I see that the APA ranking system has a lot of factors to consider. I played a friend of mine here from the AZB forum some nights ago and I asked how would I fare in the league. he said that the APA ranking would take more than just a night of playing to give a real assessment of my rank or pool skill. however, his initial assessment of me is that it's either I'm a strong 3 or a 4. he's a 7, btw.

I dunno if a 3 or 4 is ok, or does it mean that I'm still in the novice level. I'm looking forward to how I play him next time since I've ran out of gas in the latter stages and missed some easy ones in the end. it was a good match though. Defense Vs. Offense.

Gregg · Mar 31, 2008

People can speculate, but the APA League keeps the Equalizer system it uses very secret, and I don't know that anybody on this MB has that information, and if they did, they wouldn't be allowed to post it.

The are afraid that if people know how the system works, that people will begin to manipulate the system.

Not that it's impossible now.

Divine Sapience · Mar 31, 2008

The APA rating system in my area is very inconsistent. It seems as if the league operator moves the ratings with how he deems it proper, and not based off of a mathematical calculation. It seems like the same team goes to Vegas every year, and that usually is the team that he wants go. APA has participation has fallen off in our area. I am not sure if that can be attributed to the situations with handicapping or the fact that none of the top level players ever play APA. Most people want the best competition that they can find, and if the best players are not playing APA a lot of other players are following suit.

They did however start a APA Master’s league that just started last week. A few of the big guns have joined that league for the reason of the ridiculous payout. A short 10 week season, with only 6 teams in it and the winning team gets an all expense paid trip to Vegas. League dues are only $7 per week. So for the investment of $70 over 10 weeks you get a decent chance of winning a free trip to Vegas.

stevea · Mar 31, 2008

If your looking for the best competition then you should look elsewhere, most of the time you will not find it in the APA. I have heard from players that the APA will do more hurt then good for your game (just there opinions).

kaznj · Mar 31, 2008

Gregg said:
People can speculate, but the APA League keeps the Equalizer system it uses very secret, and I don't know that anybody on this MB has that information, and if they did, they wouldn't be allowed to post it.

The are afraid that if people know how the system works, that people will begin to manipulate the system.

Not that it's impossible now.

I believe that people understand enough about the ranking system so that they are manipulating it now. You don't have to know the actual algorithm to know that the fewer the innings along with more wins produces a higher rating. If 2 fours play and they play the max of five games with 20 innings nobody is going up. If the same two players play and one wins 3-0 in 6 innings he is going up. I know it takes more than one match to make the ranking, but I hope you get the point.

SCCues · Mar 31, 2008

Divine Sapience said:
The APA rating system in my area is very inconsistent. It seems as if the league operator moves the ratings with how he deems it proper, and not based off of a mathematical calculation.

It's the exact same way where I live. The LO can move anyone he choses at will. I've seen players lose 2 or 3 matches in a row and out of the blue their handicap goes up! I gave up trying to play in the league because of the sandbagging and handicap manipulation that goes on.

James

johnnydub · Mar 31, 2008

I HATE sandbaggers, we had our round robin yesterday to decide which 4 teams from our division would make it to the sweet sixteen next week and we played a team in the semi's that beat us earlier in season pretty heavily and we were giving them 5 balls in the match. We ended up beating them by a couple balls but we got lucky with a few of our weaker players stepping up and playing well. They were so pissed that they lost to us, that made me feel a little better lol. Sorry guys/gals just ranting, and im sure ill be seeing even worse sandbagging in the finals.

Gregg · Mar 31, 2008

I've been playing APA for a bit over than five years, and as most of us, I can "feel" when a player is going to move up or down.

IMO, the APA does a pretty decent job. For example, a weak SL4 can compete with strong SL4, for the most part.

I've seen in other national handicap leagues situations where the weak SL4 was two or three steps behind, and simply outclassed by a stronger equal SL shooter. Now that's no fun, IMO, and not what handicap leagues are about.

But enough about that...the real issue at hand is the actual calculation, the formula...nobody I know or ever seen can verify what it is that's used for sure, and that's exactly how the APA League wants it.

cubc · Mar 31, 2008

stevea said:
If your looking for the best competition then you should look elsewhere, most of the time you will not find it in the APA. I have heard from players that the APA will do more hurt then good for your game (just there opinions).

It'll only hurt your game if you dont know how to play the table and instead play the person and drop down to their level thinking you'll get a lot more shots because they're lower than you are. One of my teammates does that all the time. He'll think because hes playing a 2 that he dont have to try as hard.. then he gets beat before he knows it.

Beware_of_Dawg · Mar 31, 2008

Gregg said:
the real issue at hand is the actual calculation, the formula...nobody I know or ever seen can verify what it is that's used for sure, and that's exactly how the APA League wants it.

I'm not sure that's true. Actually I found this forum completely on accident and the reason I found it was because I was looking (google) for the algarythm the APA uses to assess skill levels. I did find it, and I think it was here. The formula was for the way they score 8-ball but Im pretty sure I found it here.

sde · Mar 31, 2008

Hail Mary Shot said:
I'm not sure how does that APA league or some players in the APA, rank the players based on their pool skills. I know that the rankings will be based upon how you performed in your matches or simply your W-L record standing, but do you guys have any thoughts on what pool skills do this people possess from the beginner's rank to 1-10? or simply saying what kind of pool skill, knowledge and performance does each category have?

you are free to give your ideas regarding this matter. any detailed info would be greatly appreciated. tnx.

You can click on the link in this post. It loads VERY slow and is not the easiest to read, but I found the wait to be worth while.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=994730&postcount=74

Steve

Beware_of_Dawg · Mar 31, 2008

page cannot be displayed.

APA skill ranking?

AzB Silver Member

Prof. Billiard Instructor

Active member

< Searing Twins

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

Prof. Billiard Instructor

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

Registered

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

< Searing Twins

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

..................

...

..................