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08-23-2012, 10:57 PM

NASA is studying aerosols as a component of Global Warming trying to understand the science behind it...rather than just measuring and recording it on the ground...and making wild predictions on both sides of the argumentscontentions about it.

In this way, I have a green job...all be it expensive...I pay myself through high taxes.

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http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/viirs/

The Visible/Infrared Imager Radiometer Suite (VIIRS) provides advanced imaging and radiometric capabilities aboard the Suomi National Polar-orbiting Partnership (NPP) spacecraft and future next-generation weather satellites.

Suomi NPP is a bridge mission between the current polar weather satellite system and The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Joint Polar Satellite System. Raytheon is on contract to build one more VIIRS instrument for Joint Polar Satellite System (JPSS).

VIIRS surpasses the radiometric accuracy of the Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer (AVHRR) at 1.14 km currently being flown on the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) polar orbiters with the high spatial resolution up to 0.37 km) of the Operational Linescan System (OLS) flown on Defense Meteorological Satellite Program (DMSP). As a key part of the weather forecasting data chain, VIIRS provides highly detailed imagery of global storm patterns. VIIRS’ multi-band imaging capabilities also support the acquisition of high-resolution atmospheric imagery for a variety of other applied products. including detection of fires, smoke, and atmospheric aerosols; and provides imagery of clouds under sunlit conditions in about a dozen visible and infrared bands, with nighttime applications as well.

From 512 miles above the Earth and traveling at 16,640 miles per hour, VIIRS continues to capture vivid images that have included the Blue Marble 2012, which has been called the most amazing high definition image of Earth, in addition to the companion Eastern Hemisphere image of the Earth.

In order to capture the daily global images, VIIRS rises from the south and sets in the north on the daylight side of Earth in a sun-synchronous orbit. This path allows for consistent image angles, lighting and data capture. Successive orbits overlap one another throughout the day to acquire swaths measuring 1,900 miles across which results in a complete image of the globe.

By providing more accurate and timely weather forecasting, VIIRS will help save lives and reduce costs associated with severe storm events in the U.S. and around the world.


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08-23-2012, 11:02 PM

That bad boy takes good pics!

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08-23-2012, 11:39 PM

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Originally Posted by chevybob20 View Post
You really don't know the lingo. I can tell you are just a politician trying to dupe the rate payer.

NERC certified Reliability Authority, Balancing Authority. I do this every day for 12 hours a day. So, now that we got past the standard left wing bull of attacking the messenger, where are those prices so we can stack them up against the industry standard?
Lol. I'm definitely not a trader. I can't imagine any of the folks I worked with from the power marketing group would state the things you're saying.

I don't know the lingo? Have you been drinking? Something in your response smells fishy. The fact that you don't know what the price is for energy traded every day of the year tells me you don't know where to get that info.

Do you think I'm trying to hide something that is freely available? Like I'm the only holder of the price of solar energy traded on the market? None of my colleagues in power marketing would have asked me, a developer, for that info. That's their job. They would have told me what the price was. The fact that you don't seem to know what the price is nor where to get it tells me you're wolfing.

From an LCOE perspective solar is higher than coal or NG. Prices bid into recent RFPs range from$70/MWh to about $100/MWh. Wind prices are about $60/MWh or so. All of this info on long term contracts is publicly available.


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08-24-2012, 12:04 AM

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Originally Posted by bamadog View Post
Since you were a lobbyist, you can probably shed some light on these things:
Do you have any idea what tax incentives and govt subsidies for solar cost the taxpayers of this country every year?

I don't understand why private investors would invest in an industry that can only exist by the grace of govt incentives.
Can you explain how that works?
How do investors make profit from solar?

How about the govt forcing utilities to buy solar power at non-competitive prices and pass that cost along to the customer?
How does that work?
These are actually good and fair questions. My lobbying days are about five years past and they were at the state level so I don't know what the number is for federal taxes specifically spent on solar are. My guess is about a few tanks? And a fighter plane or two? Throw in a few drones and were probably getting close. I don't mean to be totally crass but I really don't know.

Investors make money in the renewable industry in exactly the same way they do in every other industry. This is a common misconception that somehow only democrats or left wing ideologues run solar businesses. I can assure you that many of them are in fact republicans and or conservatives that take business and profit as seriously as any other industry. I've learned a lot from a few of them. There are also many people that feel good about working in renewables but at the end of the day, if they don't follow sound business practices and make a profit they will not be around long.

As far as govt forcing utilities to purchase solar or renewables and then pass that cost to the ratepayers it's pretty simple. Govt passes a regulation. Utilities follow the regulation. The actual sausage making inside the machine is complicated but this isn't really the forum for that info.


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08-24-2012, 08:53 PM

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Originally Posted by plfrg View Post
Lol. I'm definitely not a trader. I can't imagine any of the folks I worked with from the power marketing group would state the things you're saying.

I don't know the lingo? Have you been drinking? Something in your response smells fishy. The fact that you don't know what the price is for energy traded every day of the year tells me you don't know where to get that info.

Do you think I'm trying to hide something that is freely available? Like I'm the only holder of the price of solar energy traded on the market? None of my colleagues in power marketing would have asked me, a developer, for that info. That's their job. They would have told me what the price was. The fact that you don't seem to know what the price is nor where to get it tells me you're wolfing.

From an LCOE perspective solar is higher than coal or NG. Prices bid into recent RFPs range from$70/MWh to about $100/MWh. Wind prices are about $60/MWh or so. All of this info on long term contracts is publicly available.
The cost of Solar is all I wanted. I felt that you were dodging the cost issue.

I know that it's not a viable energy source, yet. If rate payers want to sign up for a higher cost to support green energy, that's fine. Rate payers shouldn't be made to pay for something they don't want.

I would love to see solar work. It would have at least one advantage over wind. Solar should peak during air conditioner load peak in the summer. Wind is non-existent during peak times and wide open at night. That's opposite of load.
  
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Bayshore Power Plant - 08-25-2012, 09:08 AM




Bayshore 1, 2, 3, 4

Oregon Ohio near Toledo.

FirstEnergy operates seven coal-fired power plants in Ohio, including the large Bay Shore Power Plant in suburban Oregon, which produces 620 megawatts of electricity, or enough to power about 600,000 homes.
  
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08-25-2012, 09:20 AM

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Romney plan: Oil. And more oil. And did we mention oil?

Posted on August 25, 2012 - 11:00 by Pete Danko, EarthTechling

"It's all about oil," griped one commentator about the new energy plan [PDF] that Mitt Romney put out on Thursday.

Was it a raging environmentalist registering this complaint? Some crazy solar advocate perhaps? No. As noted by Think Progress, it was T. Boone Pickens, legendary oil man.


Pickens' beef was on account of natural gas, his current passion, getting short shrift from the presumptive Republican nominee, and it's true, gas lost out to oil. But it did a whole lot better than renewable energy.

Grist's Lisa Hymas counted up the number of mentions each energy source got in the Romny doc. Oil led with 154. Natural gas was second at 36. Solar? Down the list with 14 mentions (not all of them complimentary). Wind, with 10 citations, barely beat out Keystone. You know, the oil pipeline.

Well, don't say we didn't warn you.

Way back in January, when it was obvious to some of us that none of the likes of Paul, Santorum or Gingrich would get the nomination, we took a long hard look at Romney's energy views as outlined in his policy statement, "Believe in America." Romney's allegiance to fossil fuels, and the black liquid stuff in particular, was pretty clear

What the new document does is repackage the Romney energy outlook more around the idea of that long-sought American ideal, energy independence. To make happen his goal of zero oil imported from outside North America by 2020, Romney proposes – as he has before – opening up the Atlantic Coast and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to development, and adds in a few new twists: giving states the ability to decide whether and how such projects could go ahead with resource exploitation on federal lands, and working cooperatively with Mexico and Canada.

"Three million jobs come back to this country, by taking advantage of something we have right underneath our feet," Romney said. "That's oil and gas and coal. We're going to make it happen; we're going to create those jobs."

Utterly ignored in the Romney plan is the concern, widely held in the scientific community, that burning fossil fuels poses a grave threat to Earth by releasing greenhouse gases that are causing warming and other climate changes. Maybe you've heard about this phenomenon; Romney apparently hasn't.



Of course, the Obama administration, heading into the election, isn't exactly shouting climate change warnings from rooftops. When the White House responded to Romney's "new" plan, and stood by clean energy investment, spokesman Jay Carney chose his words carefully.

"While the Republican approach denigrates forms of energy like wind, this president believes that investing in renewable energy is essential to enhancing our energy independence," Carney said.

The White House feels comfortable promoting clean energy during the campaign – disassociated from climate change – because polls consistently show it to be popular. 

In fact, on the same day Mitt Romney's oil-splotched energy policy white paper came out, the pro-renewables group Advanced Energy Economy released a survey that showed "90 percent of Republicans believe it is very important or somewhat important for America's future to be a leader in developing, manufacturing, and deploying advanced energy products like batteries for power storage, solar panels and turbine components."


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08-25-2012, 11:16 AM

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Originally Posted by LAMas View Post
I seem to remember that you were going to install solar.
How is that working out for you?
Are you saving money...the reason in the first place?

Be well.
I got to looking at it.
Seems I misjudged the size of the array I need due to the lack of efficiency in the panels.
I have to assume the residential panels will be between 18-21% efficient.

Here is the estimator I used.
http://www.solar-estimate.org/index.php

We are rated at 4.68 kWh/m^2 per day

For 50% of my electric costs I am looking at net of having someone install it at almost 18,000 after rebates.

Cost of materials if I have read the estimate site correctly is about 12,000

Break even in 12 years if I dont do the install myself.

To do 100% I need a 12,000 kwh system.
Looking at 18,300 for materials.
And 32,700 net for installation.

Break even in 10 years. Which is better.

Would save $47,752 in utilities in 25 years.


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Talking 08-25-2012, 02:32 PM

Break even in 10 years. Wow. What a savings.

What about the lost opportunity cost. That is the time value of your
labor and material.

I worked in the energy field. During bad times, if something did not
pay off in 3 years, it was dead on arrival. It is surprising just how
many concepts can be found that have rapid payoff. I would
spend my time looking and researching.



  
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08-25-2012, 03:02 PM

I hope that the costs and life for/of the panels and infrastructures come down.

Still that's a lot of $$$. Good thing that you are young.


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08-25-2012, 04:47 PM

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Originally Posted by chevybob20 View Post
The cost of Solar is all I wanted. I felt that you were dodging the cost issue.

I know that it's not a viable energy source, yet. If rate payers want to sign up for a higher cost to support green energy, that's fine. Rate payers shouldn't be made to pay for something they don't want.

I would love to see solar work. It would have at least one advantage over wind. Solar should peak during air conditioner load peak in the summer. Wind is non-existent during peak times and wide open at night. That's opposite of load.
I apologize if I got a little excited there. It's possible that your job in energy is so specialized that you really don't know the price of solar. The company I worked for was actually a subsidiary of one of the largest utilities in the world so our power marketing group was exposed to a lot more than a typical group working only inside a utility. It also provided me with insight into that world but I still don't know a lot about power marketing and energy trading. Just enough to know when someone is wolfing.

We were the US development arm of of the utility for all renewables so it provided me with a broader perspective on all renewables than just solar. The parent company is also one of, if not the largest owner of nuclear power plant assets in the world. It's another reason I couldn't hold back when the hack that wrote the article was quoted on this thread. Again, she wrote about a small experience she had and painted the entire solar industry with a completely misleading brush - using absolute BS numbers and rhetoric.

You jumped into the middle of a thread (always a little risky) and threw out the third type of energy metric probably confusing everyone but me.

Here's the background:

Hack that wrote the article stated installation price ($/w). Her pricing was accurate about 5 years ago. Not even close today.

I point out that the primary and most accurate way to compare energy generation assets in a portfolio is using LCOE (levelized cost of energy) measured in $/kWh or $/MWh. This is a full life-cycle cost of the delivered energy and the correct way to compare energy types.

You brought in the third measurement that is used by power marketing groups to actually schedule and control the energy we get ($/MW/block I believe). I believe blocks on most ISO grids are 20-25MW blocks? Again I'm not a power marketer so this area is not that familiar to me. This $/MW is *not* the same as the installation $/w cost quoted by the hack. The spot market for energy can go up and down so it's not a good measurement to use for comparison.

One more complicating factor with solar is there is different pricing for different sectors. I install large utility power plants (which is the most accurate apples to apples LCOE comparison to other utility power plants). As you can imagine I can install solar for far less $/w than you can install it for on your home.

One very good reference for industry pricing is the SEIA website. It is the industry association so their rhetoric will favor solar (I personally think they do a great job but you can take it with a grain of salt ), but the $$ figures they provide are accurate.

http://www.seia.org/research-resourc...-industry-data

scroll down to see the chart and you will see it shows utility solar under $3/w installed. I can tell you that number would be very high for utility systems being bid today. The prices are much closer to $2/w installed - all in.

If you don't like the industry site you can go here:
http://www.greentechmedia.com/

or here:
http://www.solarbuzz.com/

Both well respected market research groups in the industry. I pay thousands of $$ for their reports so I depend on them being accurate not biased. They both do a good job.
  
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08-25-2012, 05:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slide Rule View Post
Break even in 10 years. Wow. What a savings.

What about the lost opportunity cost. That is the time value of your
labor and material.

I worked in the energy field. During bad times, if something did not
pay off in 3 years, it was dead on arrival. It is surprising just how
many concepts can be found that have rapid payoff. I would
spend my time looking and researching.



Thats the entire problem.


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08-25-2012, 05:56 PM

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Originally Posted by LAMas View Post
I hope that the costs and life for/of the panels and infrastructures come down.

Still that's a lot of $$$. Good thing that you are young.
I could spend the time and assemble my own panels and save quite a bit there if I dont count the labor involved.
However the main problem then is creating a pane that is water proof.
Moisture is the death knoll to solar.

Its grave weakness in the technology.


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