Subletting?

JC

JC

Coos Cues
I agreed this year to build a cue for a complete stranger for the first time. Every cue I had made up until this time in my learning curve has gone to someone I know.

I was getting very close to the timeline I represented that it would take me to complete it and found that my current finishing skills were not up to the task. I have been finishing with epoxy with good results but this cue was making me crazy. In essence my mouth wrote a check my ass couldn't cash.

So I finished this cue twice and both times it had some small unacceptable defects and I was very frustrated as making cues is a hobby to me and I'm also building a house this year and running my auto repair business plus my 6 year old baby girl need a lot from me.

So I decided to have another cue maker put the finish on for me. It came out really nice. The guy likes the cue and I told him I didn't put the finish on because for some reason it didn't sit right with me not to.

My question is does this make me a hack or unmanly or something? I sort of feel like a failure about this. Time was really my main concern as I don't want my cue building hobby to cause me stress. I know many cue makers start with other people's blanks. Is this the same or is it different? Should I have even told the guy I didn't put the finish on it? Thoughts?

Thanks,

JC
 
Chopdoc

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I hope you don't mind me commenting as a non-cuemaker since you asked in the cuemaker forum.


A hack would have let the substandard work go. An unmanly guy would not have owned up to this.

I respect how you handled this.

.
 
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JC

JC

Coos Cues
dafunkdawg said:
There are some high end furniture builders who do not finish their own work. They sub it out.
Click to expand...

So what is the difference between subbing it out and hiring a skilled employee to do it?

The reason I want input on this is I'm rethinking much of it lately. I don't think I will ever be able to put a finish on a cue that compares to auto clear coat without using auto clear coat. But I don't want to get anywhere near the stuff. But I do want to make the best cues I can. So I'm thinking about my long term options.

JC
 
Michael Webb

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JC.
I have a lot of respect for your post. Well done. Early on someone did my spraying too. It wasn't til I actually watched him do it that discusted me so much that my journey began in learning how to do it properly myself.
 
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CuesDirectly

CuesDirectly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am in agreement with others who have posted, great job JC.

I learned something building homes, I could work real hard and it would take me 6 months to finish a house.

I could work less and have it done in 70-80 days with subcontractors. I never had a problem with any of them and they were responsible if they screwed up.

Good subs will make you money.
 
T

thoffen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Seems like finishing is the worst part to most makers. If you read this forum, plenty have enlisted other's help. I think most learn to do their own finish because of the quality.

If I'm a customer, I could care less about who did the finish as long as it was good and would not think any less of the maker if it wasn't them. Sure, there is artistry in finish, but it has squat to do with playability and little to do with design.
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
JC said:
So what is the difference between subbing it out and hiring a skilled employee to do it?

The reason I want input on this is I'm rethinking much of it lately. I don't think I will ever be able to put a finish on a cue that compares to auto clear coat without using auto clear coat. But I don't want to get anywhere near the stuff. But I do want to make the best cues I can. So I'm thinking about my long term options.

JC
Click to expand...

Wait, you can afford to hire a skilled employee?

Finishing is a money pit.
 
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j2pac

j2pac

Marital Slow Learner.
Staff member
Moderator
Gold Member
Silver Member
Chopdoc said:
I hope you don't mind me commenting as a non-cuemaker since you asked in the cuemaker forum.


A hack would have let the substandard work go. An unmanly guy would not have owned up to this.

I respect how you handled this.

.
Click to expand...

I agree. You wanted to make the guy happy, and it seems that you did. There is nothing hackish, or unmanly about honesty, and integrity. You handled this properly in my book, my friend. Just an opinion from the cheap seats. :cool:
Best regards.
Joe P
 
63Kcode

63Kcode

AKA Larry Vigus
Silver Member
Chopdoc said:
I hope you don't mind me commenting as a non-cuemaker since you asked in the cuemaker forum.


A hack would have let the substandard work go. An unmanly guy would not have owned up to this.

I respect how you handled this.

.
Click to expand...

I agree with Chopdoc.

I have seen the cue you built for Dean. It looked good to me. Epoxy takes time to get consistent results. I wouldn't give up on it just yet.

Larry
 
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JC

JC

Coos Cues
Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I plan to continue to learn and work at it.

Joey you're absolutely correct. A money pit and a time vampire. I really enjoy every aspect of building cues except finishing at this point. To tell the truth I didn't give that part of it much thought or respect when I started. Finishing was called "the other half of cue building" in a thread last week and when I saw that it really hit home. Plenty of respect these days.

The gentleman I made this cue for is a member here, maybe he will chime in if he sees this.

JC
 
rhinobywilhite

rhinobywilhite

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think you handles it perfectly. Even Balabushka subbed stuff out; i.e., different guys built fronts for him for a number of years.

Your upfront honesty with the buyer was spot on. You will get better as you continue to do finish work.

Heck, I bet Michelangelo messed up on a painting or two as he pursued his craft!
 
Mcues

Mcues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Epoxy finish

I have to respect your honesty and you are not alone...just more honest than most. It seems these days we are helping to create lots of Cuemakers with half the knowledge necessary. Of course, things would be worse if we didn't give out any info. I suppose the apprentice system
is an ancient procedure choked to death by technology.

Ok. I'm willing to help with your finishing encounters. :)


Mario
 
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S

Superiorduper

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cue building and any kind finishing are two different arts, it's noble of you to respect the customer and another art in itself. Kudos, I'm neither but a craftsman and an artist myself. My father ran a furniture company when I was a kid but also did all the finish work, he probably did more finish work on other makers furniture than on his own, you'd honestly be amazed, even some of the best makers in the area had him do the finish because...well why risk the final step of completing your masterpiece, rather than just pay someone do to a skill they've taken years and years to perfect? I'm sure he rarely got credit to any customers but the makers sure loved not having to worry about whether or not it'd be perfect.
 
conetip

conetip

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No shame JC.
Sub contracting is common place in industry these days. So much so, it is rare to find companies that do the whole of the work, let alone the majority of that work by 1 employee.
You fulfilled the contract and the customer is happy. You did everything right in my view.
Neil
 
S

Sweatin'

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think you did absolutely the right thing.

The only way I could see such a thing being a problem would be if you were a big name cue maker who ordinarily did all the work yourself, and for some reason subbed out work on a particular cue and failed to tell the customer. In my view this would potentially diminish the value of the cue with the subbed-out work. None of that was true in this scenario; you did fine. Your buddy was looking for a nice cue, not a collector piece and you did right by him.
 
LGSM3

LGSM3

Jake<built cues for fun
Silver Member
well hallelujah! I'm sending all of my cues to Larry to finish from now on
 
WilleeCue

WilleeCue

The Barefoot Cuemaker
Silver Member
I think you are letting the real hacks and flakes distract you from what you know is an obvious answer to your question.
Of course it is completely OK for someone else to finish a cue you have made.
The fact you did not let a sub standard job go to a customer speaks a lot about your commitment to higher standards.

Anyone that thinks a cue must be made completely by one person to qualify as a REAL custom cue is a REAL nut job!
And there are plenty of them in this business ... turn your nut filter up a notch or two and go back to turning wood and making chips fly.

Willee
 
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