Why Pool is devastated by the new Smoking Laws.

Paul Schofield

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This thread is about what the new smoking laws mean to pool. This thread is not a rant about who has got what rights and the heavy hand of government.

The new smoking laws are a catastrophic blow and a dagger through the heart of the business of pocket billiards. How can this be? Many restaurants and bars that have rid themselves of smoking have actually seen their sales recover and increase. If this is true then this must also extrapolate to poolrooms. It doesn’t. We have lost more than 70% of our poolrooms.

The answer sits in the governments demographic reports on smokers. Its eye opening and easy to see why some businesses benefit and others are destroyed.

1. The more educated an individual is, the less likely he/she smokes. A person with a mere high school education is 8X more like to smoke than a person with a college education beyond a bachelor degree.
2. In parallel, the higher a person’s income and net worth is, the less likely a person smokes. At the same time, the closer a person’s income approaches the poverty line, the more likely a person smokes.
3. Looking at a graph of smokers from the ages of 18 to 80, the closer a person is to the age of 18, the more likely the person smokes.

Who is our clientele? Take a look at the big picture. When a restaurant disallows smoking, and its customer base is from the 2nd and 3rd tier (5 tiers) of the demographic scale, smokers are replaced with many more non-smokers. This is because the smoker to non-smoker ratio heavily favors the non-smokers in this demographic.

The business of pool draws heaviest from the lowest fifth of the demographic scale. The highest percentage of smokers is in this group. Pool appeals to this group and our poolrooms are built to serve this group. Tell them that they can’t smoke in a poolroom and who replaces them? The smoker to non-smoker ratio in this demographic is much different than the tiers above them.

The smoking laws are here to stay and they will only become more stringent. This is very bad news for pool. Pool’s only hope is to break out of its current demographic. It has to be able to compete with the recreational options afforded by the higher demographic groups. This can only happen if our great game becomes more and different than what it is. Right now, it does not compete well.
 
Last edited:
book collector

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Paul Schofield said:
This thread is about what the new smoking laws mean to pool. This thread is not a rant about who has got what rights and the heavy hand of government.

The new smoking laws are a catastrophic blow and a dagger through the heart of the business of pocket billiards. How can this be? Many restaurants and bars that have rid themselves of smoking have actually seen their sales recover and increase. If this is true then this must also extrapolate to poolrooms. It doesn’t. We have lost more than 70% of our poolrooms.

The answer sits in the governments demographic reports on smokers. Its eye opening and easy to see why some businesses benefit and others are destroyed.

1. The more educated an individual is, the less likely he/she smokes. A person with a mere high school education is 8X more like to smoke than a person with a college education beyond a bachelor degree.
2. In parallel, the higher a person’s income and net worth is, the less likely a person smokes. At the same time, the closer a person’s income approaches the poverty line, the more likely a person smokes.
3. Looking at a graph of smokers from the ages of 18 to 80, the closer a person is to the age of 18, the more likely the person smokes.

Who is our clientele? Take a look at the big picture. When a restaurant disallows smoking, and its customer base is from the 2nd and 3rd tier (5 tiers) of the demographic scale, smokers are replaced with many more non-smokers. This is because the smoker to non-smoker ratio heavily favors the non-smokers in this demographic.

The business of pool draws heaviest from the lowest fifth of the demographic scale. Pool appeals to this group and our poolrooms are built to serve this group. Tell them that they can’t smoke in a poolroom and who replaces them? The smoker to non-smoker ratio in this demographic is much different than the tiers above them.

The smoking laws are here to stay and they will only become more stringent. This is very bad news for pool. Pool’s only hope is to break out of its current demographic. It has to be able to compete with the recreational options afforded by the higher demographic groups. This can only happen if our great game becomes more and different than what it is. Right now, it does not compete well.
Click to expand...

They televise fishing tournaments with huge prizes.
Pools biggest problem is that many
people like to play , not many like to watch.
Pool needs a reality show to jump start it back into peoples minds.
Viffer vs the World or something like that.
Watching 2 great players has never gotten the job done , maybe having a guy that misses and people can relate to a little better would .
Doing the same things they did for the last 60 years and expecting a different result is just stupid.
He seems eccentric enough that people might enjoy it , also he is semi famous from the Poker Shows.
If people will watch Turtle Man catch rodents for 35 dollars I'm thinking they would enjoy watching a pool gambling show where anything might happen.
Remember I had this idea , if it takes off, I want my end!.
 
gunzby

gunzby

My light saber is LD
Silver Member
I think it is far to simplistic to blame pool halls closing on something as small as a smoking ban. If you consider what you posted about lower income ppl being more likely to smoke then how is it that all these low income smokers have all this cash to spend at a pool hall?

I live in a smoking ban state and haven't seen a drop in the amount of ppl at the hall I go to.

If the only thing a pool hall has/had going for it is ash trays I would say there is something wrong with the business
 
KRJ

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
We have been thru this many times already. C'mon, most of my pool buddies smoke but I don't. They are not going to quit the game they love.
Heck, I reduced playing a few years back. Use to play three nights per week but was getting tired of the smoke and went down to one.

Then IL went non smoking. And we 16 teams in our in house league, and currently 5 teams on the waiting list. Yep, between games they go out front and smoke. They don't mind too much, and neither do the non smokers.

Pool halls were in trouble for awhile, kids got so many others things to keep them interested, as do adults. Now we have poker and golf that gets all the attention, not to mention the four major sports, etc.

My 12 y/o son wants nothing to do with pool and I have table in the basement and even did the whole bring him down there when he was a wee lad just to roll balls. He really liked that. But he was never interested, and the only way I get him to play is to offer him $5 if he beats me with bih on every shot. He knows the more games we play, he has got to win at least one with bih on every shot, which he always does, but for a sawbuck it was worth it to me :)

Then it's back to baseball, karate and video games. Which ain't bad either, heck, I like baseball more than pool too !!!!
 
book collector

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Paul Schofield said:
This thread is about what the new smoking laws mean to pool. This thread is not a rant about who has got what rights and the heavy hand of government.

The new smoking laws are a catastrophic blow and a dagger through the heart of the business of pocket billiards. How can this be? Many restaurants and bars that have rid themselves of smoking have actually seen their sales recover and increase. If this is true then this must also extrapolate to poolrooms. It doesn’t. We have lost more than 70% of our poolrooms.

The answer sits in the governments demographic reports on smokers. Its eye opening and easy to see why some businesses benefit and others are destroyed.

1. The more educated an individual is, the less likely he/she smokes. A person with a mere high school education is 8X more like to smoke than a person with a college education beyond a bachelor degree.
2. In parallel, the higher a person’s income and net worth is, the less likely a person smokes. At the same time, the closer a person’s income approaches the poverty line, the more likely a person smokes.
3. Looking at a graph of smokers from the ages of 18 to 80, the closer a person is to the age of 18, the more likely the person smokes.

Who is our clientele? Take a look at the big picture. When a restaurant disallows smoking, and its customer base is from the 2nd and 3rd tier (5 tiers) of the demographic scale, smokers are replaced with many more non-smokers. This is because the smoker to non-smoker ratio heavily favors the non-smokers in this demographic.

The business of pool draws heaviest from the lowest fifth of the demographic scale. Pool appeals to this group and our poolrooms are built to serve this group. Tell them that they can’t smoke in a poolroom and who replaces them? The smoker to non-smoker ratio in this demographic is much different than the tiers above them.

The smoking laws are here to stay and they will only become more stringent. This is very bad news for pool. Pool’s only hope is to break out of its current demographic. It has to be able to compete with the recreational options afforded by the higher demographic groups. This can only happen if our great game becomes more and different than what it is. Right now, it does not compete well.
Click to expand...

They televise fishing tournaments with huge prizes.
Pools biggest problem is that many
people like to play , not many like to watch.
Pool needs a reality show to jump start it back into peoples minds.
Viffer vs the World or something like that.
Watching 2 great players has never gotten the job done , maybe having a guy that misses and people can relate to a little better would .
Doing the same things they did for the last 60 years and expecting a different result is just stupid.
He seems eccentric enough that people might enjoy it , also he is semi famous from the Poker Shows.
If people will watch Turtle Man catch rodents for 35 dollars I'm thinking they would enjoy watching a pool gambling show where anything might happen.
Remember I had this idea , if it takes off, I want my end!.
 
kybill9

kybill9

Banned
This is a stupid post. Smoking isn't the cause of pool rooms closing. Its the cost of everything going up and wages going down. Thanks teabaggers, we love trickle down economics. We love busting up unions so people can earn less. We love right to work states so wages can be depressed. We love having no health care or retirement. We love working minimum wage and paying more taxes than Bank of America. It just like the other lies you hear. The recession, depression that started in 2007-2008 is something Obama created. People are so stupid in this country, they will believe the lies they are told because they are too lazy to care about the truth.
 
Paul Schofield

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You only need to effect 15-20% of a poolroom's business to demolish it. This amount can easily go unnoticed to the regular customer. I know of rooms and talked to room owners that had leagues every night of the week that have closed over this.

This smoking/demographic issue looms larger than poker, casinos, video games, facebook, and recessions. I remember when recessions meant that the poolrooms boomed.
 
jrt30004

jrt30004

just jokin' around
Silver Member
this may be the most ridiculous thing i have ever read. and that's saying something considering i have read some of your other posts. i played a good deal of pool in a room here in georgia that was smoke free from before the time i started playing there and it was one of the busier rooms we had. the only reason it's gone is one of the owners sold out to his partners that wanted an upscale bar not a pool room.
no one is quitting playing because they can't smoke. they may leave one room and go to one where they can - as here in georgia where the smoking laws are different in each county - but if every room was non smoking no one is going to quit a pass time they love. they will go outside. but hey way to be over-reactionary.
and as to your "math" and "statistics" about lower education and smoking - i guess you don't have a lot of friends who are lawyers or work in the financial sector - i do and a lot of them smoke and do worse, much, much worse.
 
R

risky biz

Banned
Paul Schofield said:
This thread is about what the new smoking laws mean to pool. This thread is not a rant about who has got what rights and the heavy hand of government.

The new smoking laws are a catastrophic blow and a dagger through the heart of the business of pocket billiards. How can this be? Many restaurants and bars that have rid themselves of smoking have actually seen their sales recover and increase. If this is true then this must also extrapolate to poolrooms. It doesn’t. We have lost more than 70% of our poolrooms.

The answer sits in the governments demographic reports on smokers. Its eye opening and easy to see why some businesses benefit and others are destroyed.

1. The more educated an individual is, the less likely he/she smokes. A person with a mere high school education is 8X more like to smoke than a person with a college education beyond a bachelor degree.
2. In parallel, the higher a person’s income and net worth is, the less likely a person smokes. At the same time, the closer a person’s income approaches the poverty line, the more likely a person smokes.
3. Looking at a graph of smokers from the ages of 18 to 80, the closer a person is to the age of 18, the more likely the person smokes.

Who is our clientele? Take a look at the big picture. When a restaurant disallows smoking, and its customer base is from the 2nd and 3rd tier (5 tiers) of the demographic scale, smokers are replaced with many more non-smokers. This is because the smoker to non-smoker ratio heavily favors the non-smokers in this demographic.

The business of pool draws heaviest from the lowest fifth of the demographic scale. The highest percentage of smokers is in this group. Pool appeals to this group and our poolrooms are built to serve this group. Tell them that they can’t smoke in a poolroom and who replaces them? The smoker to non-smoker ratio in this demographic is much different than the tiers above them.

The smoking laws are here to stay and they will only become more stringent. This is very bad news for pool. Pool’s only hope is to break out of its current demographic. It has to be able to compete with the recreational options afforded by the higher demographic groups. This can only happen if our great game becomes more and different than what it is. Right now, it does not compete well.
Click to expand...

Let's inject some facts here. From the Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association, 2010:
"Billiards –Fast Facts
•There are 43,005,000 Billiards participants in the U.S.
•There are 15,702,000 core (13+/year) Billiards participants in the U.S.
•66% of all Billiards participants are male; 71% of core (13+/year) Billiards participants are male.
•51% of all Billiards participants are under 35 years old; 50% of core (13+/year) Billiards participants are under 35.
•45% of all Billiards participants have a household income of at least $75,000 per year.
•42% of all Billiards participants reside in a market size of 2,000,000+.
•40% of all Billiards participants have a college degree or higher.
•33% of all Billiards participants also participate in darts and 57% participate in bowling."

Unfortunately, I think some of you room owners are looking for an excuse for your struggling business. If your pool room was full of tobacco addicts for the last 10 years then a lot of non-smokers avoided it and definitely wouldn't allow their children anywhere near it. You lost a huge demographic by not providing a minimally healthy place to play. You should have focused on them in the first place but instead you took the easy route and let the tobacco addicts take over. Now, you have to figure out how to get the others in your room. Not as easy. I suspect a lot of them have bought their own pool tables rather than go to a filthy smelling pool hall.
 
R

racefornine

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Smoking ban w/ alcohol serving billiard room

Smoking ban was a huge hit , online gaming , popularity of poker , dwi laws , rising costs to do business , all factors . The smoking ban was by far the biggest hit to my business . When I bought my room in 2001 it had been in business for ten years , the first three I owned it I stuffed it in all four pockets , have been just surviving since . Thank god I love it .
 
HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Neil said:
Depends on how many of the patrons smoked. I know that my going to a room to play has diminished greatly. Mostly due to the economy, but also due to the fact that I can't smoke there. I don't like having to go out in the rain or cold to have a smoke when I want one, so it diminishes any fun I would of had being there.
Click to expand...

So, you are telling me that the non-smokers don't have the same arguement? I hated going to our pool hall when they allowed smoking. The room stunk and the ventilation wasn't the greatest and it took away any enjoyment I would have had going there to play.

I smoked for more than 25 years before I finally quit and that was one of the best things I ever did. Even though I'm a reformed smoker, I don't go around being the cigarette police and bashing smokers like some people do. I think EVERY business should be able to do what they want to do...have a smoking place or non-smoking place or a split place that has both. If the people don't like one place they can go to another that caters to their lifestyle.
 
RunoutJJ

RunoutJJ

Professional Banger
Silver Member
I smoke and rather not but its a filthy habit that I picked up 18 years ago. I personally like the smoking ban because if Im allowed to smoke indoors I can smoke a whole pack at my stay which is horrible. I smoke maybe 12 cigarettes a day but man!!! Do I like the smoking ban!!!!


For you to say that the smoking bans is ruining poolroom business is like this picture.....................................




































































































































pregnancy-smoking-fail.jpg



:slap:
 
Paul Schofield

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We are getting off topic.

Could we please hear from a room owner who has been in business for many years, who's business has improved since the smoking laws took affect?
 
cleary

cleary

Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
Aren't you the same guy that has a pool room with a dress code that will let nearly nobody in the door?? Maybe it's not the smoking...
 
K

King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Kbill9 is right!

This is a stupid post. Smoking isn't the cause of pool rooms closing. Its the cost of everything going up and wages going down. Thanks teabaggers, we love trickle down economics. We love busting up unions so people can earn less. We love right to work states so wages can be depressed. We love having no health care or retirement. We love working minimum wage and paying more taxes than Bank of America. It just like the other lies you hear. The recession, depression that started in 2007-2008 is something Obama created. People are so stupid in this country, they will believe the lies they are told because they are too lazy to care about the truth.

kbill9 has it right, this is a game the requires cash...., when the money flows the game grows..., the backer's are in place and the pool halls can attrack customers..., no money, no customers. The highset grossing pool hall in Houston is Clicks and its non smoking, its got a crowd every night.
 
MoonshineMattK

MoonshineMattK

.
Silver Member
The smoking ban........

after starting, stopping, erasing and starting again...

several times...

I don't care if .001% of the U.S population smokes.
This is not the country I went to kindergarten in.
Land of the free and home of the brave.

Cigarettes are legal.

If the government had passed an air purity standard rather than a ban I could get behind it.

The ridiculous ban I cannot.

Mandate smoke ventilation.
Pass an indoor air purity standard.
Something that at least makes sense.

Smoking and drinking are on the same level as pie and Ice cream, Thanksgiving and Turkey.
 
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