Royal Pro Cloth

dug1903

dug1903

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
About ready to purchase Royal Pro. Seems like most of what I read about it is a few years old. Anybody played on it or have had it for awhile? What are your thoughts? Putting on a home table.
I want to thank Beneath The Sur for his insights. He's been great at answering my questions.
Also any installation tips would be helpful.
 
K

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dug1903 said:
About ready to purchase Royal Pro. Seems like most of what I read about it is a few years old. Anybody played on it or have had it for awhile? What are your thoughts? Putting on a home table.
I want to thank Beneath The Sur for his insights. He's been great at answering my questions.
Also any installation tips would be helpful.
Click to expand...

At the senior center I play at we have an old American style (unheated) Brunswick table that had new Klematch (sp?) rubber and Royal Pro put on about a year and a half ago. We also have a modern European style heated table which was recovered with Simonis, including having the rails done with the new Simonis rail cloth about 6 months ago.

Take my comments with a big block of salt as I would (charitably) describe myself as a novice.

The RP table plays pretty fast. The comments about them picking up white spots a little faster than Simon is seem to be correct. Occasionally as a ball is rolling we get a bit of a rumbling sound.

After we had that table in use for about a year it came time to re-cover the other, Gabrials, table. We considered the RP cloth, but on balance we decided to stick with the Simon's. We further decided to use their new rail cloth, after we were able to get some feedback about it at the Worlds, in Bordeaux.

It has been about six months, now. The table plays very nicely. I can't honestly say whether the rail cloth enhances that, but that is more a limitation in my skill and perception. In general, people prefer playing on the Gabrials table, but I think it is because it is just a better table, not necessarily the cloth.

If I personally had a home table (in my dreams) I would make my decision along similar lines. If it was an unheated table I'd go with the RP. But if I was fortunate enough to have a heated European table I would go with the Simonis. I'm not sure if I would choose the new rail cloth for the rails.

Again, these are the comments of someone pretty limited in skill and experience. 12squared, who sometimes posts here, has way more skill and experience than I have and he has played on both tables and can give you a more informed opinion. If he doesn't chime in here you might consider dropping him a PM to solicit his take on the comparison.

Good luck with the table.
 
Texas Carom Club

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
What do you mean by going back to simonis on balance? It's costs hundred's if not 100 extra
Just curious

Also do you notice a great deal of difference in the European table than the Brunswick?

The Gabriels if it's diamond wood top, they have extruded aluminum for most of the rail, or if it's the newer ones it's mdf

The brunswick is probably old and solid wood

What's the difference in play do you think since you play there a great deal , curious to know what you think about the difference in play between the 2
 
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M.G.

M.G.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dug1903 said:
About ready to purchase Royal Pro. Seems like most of what I read about it is a few years old. Anybody played on it or have had it for awhile? .
Click to expand...

The Carom guys I trained with for a while swear by Royal Pro.
Yes, it's "faster", but it lasts better and has less issues with humidity. Heating still is recommended, but it can be turned down a little and pre-heating time can be shortened.

I did play only 2 shots on it. Very nice rolling, very smooth surface.

A few shots are now possible that would be more difficult before. Also the CB effet still holds after 2 rail contacts, much much better then with regular cloth (this is what they really are after).

They had it installed by the Greek guy himself, so I don't have any tips for that.

Absolutely recommended! Price is a bargain!

Cheers,
M
 
K

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
beneath_the_sur said:
What do you mean by going back to simonis on balance? It's costs hundred's if not 100 extra
Just curious

Also do you notice a great deal of difference in the European table than the Brunswick?

The Gabriels if it's diamond wood top, they have extruded aluminum for most of the rail, or if it's the newer ones it's mdf

The brunswick is probably old and solid wood

What's the difference in play do you think since you play there a great deal , curious to know what you think about the difference in play between the 2
Click to expand...

Not everything is about money. Either one is better than no table at all to play on, which is what I had for the 25 years between my 3 year introduction to the game and when I retired here. And both are far better than the tables I learned on, which were old Brunswicks with old slow cloth and worn out balls.

As to cost, I don't recall what the Royal Pro cost, but the Simonis, both for the 300 Rapide for the bed and the Precishot for the rails cost a total of 312.56 euros plus about 50 euros for shipping, which at today's exchange rate is a total of about $415. Kozoom's price is the same now as when we bought it, in euros. We actually got It for a bit less in dollars because the exchange rate was better then. It looks like Royal Pro is a couple of hundred bucks less. But to me, to quibble over a couple hundred dollars every few years on a table that costs thousands seems insignificant. We didn't get the RP for the American style table because of cost, we did it because it was a better fit for an unheated table.

As to MY opinion of how they play, as I said before my opinion is less than useful since due to lack of skill, coupled with lack of experience, my opinion is not very informed. I enjoy playing on both. And given the difference in the tables that the respective cloths are on, I don't see that a fair comparison can be made that would be useful in deciding on one or the other for a given table. I've never played Royal Pro on a heated table, and I've never played Simonis on an unheated table. I've played 99% of all my billiards on exactly 4 tables, so when I say I lack the experience to offer any opinion beyond that I'm not kidding.
 
Texas Carom Club

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
Interesting that you feel your opinion is not good enough to say how one table plays to the other but you definitely have an opinion on which cloth is better for which table
But if you don't wish to give your take on what they play like I understand and will drop it

I also have played on 4 brands of tables, 8 different exactly
Gabs,verh, Soren,and something that's a mystery table

Also the price of RP is 215 with tax and shipping in the us, cost is a big factor of everything in billiards, perhaps not in your clubs case, but in ALOT of others it is

The rp on my table is fast,
I've taken it off thebed and reinstalled it about 5 times now, it's getting tattered around the ends where you staple, but still fast and still very tight
I've had the heater on an off over the yr just to see what the difference is,

I see no difference other than what the heater does is give a little more action to the rails,
Very little difference to when it's on and off so I keep it off, and this is in a hot humid Houston tx garage
Still plays fast, that's my experience with it
 
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J

Jerseychris

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It won't matter which cloth you use if you don't get a billiard (not pool) table mechanic to install it. Requires two men and a lot of stretching otherwise it will play like crap..
 
Texas Carom Club

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
Simonis no doubt need 2 men for the entire job 3 really would make it easier and quicker

For rp,
as the videos show
pavlos does most of it himself
My own experience installing each clothes
Definitely need 2 people for simonis, rp can he done by one person
But Chris is right, need to know something about carom cloth install as well
 
dug1903

dug1903

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the input. I really do appreciate it. I think my biggest worry is getting it installed corectly. I've watched the videos and I'm sure there is more going on than meets the eye. Just like in my job. It looks easy till you try to do it.
I've asked around my area and nobody has heard of RP let alone install it. Heck, most have not even done a Carom table. If anybody can point me to a good installer in Central Ia. (Des Moines) area I will give 'em a call.
As for me, I too am a beginner/novice at the game but love every minute I'm playing. I was lucky enough to pick up a Brunswick Sport King cheap. It has had the cushions replaced with a newer style. Kleber I think. I just thought new cloth would make it play even better. .
Again thanks one and all for your responses. You guys are great. Doug
 
K

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
beneath_the_sur said:
Interesting that you feel your opinion is not good enough to say how one table plays to the other but you definitely have an opinion on which cloth is better for which table
But if you don't wish to give your take on what they play like I understand and will drop it

I also have played on 4 brands of tables, 8 different exactly
Gabs,verh, Soren,and something that's a mystery table

Also the price of RP is 215 with tax and shipping in the us, cost is a big factor of everything in billiards, perhaps not in your clubs case, but in ALOT of others it is

The rp on my table is fast,
I've taken it off thebed and reinstalled it about 5 times now, it's getting tattered around the ends where you staple, but still fast and still very tight
I've had the heater on an off over the yr just to see what the difference is,

I see no difference other than what the heater does is give a little more action to the rails,
Very little difference to when it's on and off so I keep it off, and this is in a hot humid Houston tx garage
Still plays fast, that's my experience with it
Click to expand...

What is REALLY interesting is that you feel the need to criticize my opinion. Unlike many people, nowadays, I do not make it a practice to offer opinions on things I'm not qualified in.

I also have to add that for a home table costing thousands, basing cloth choice on a 200 dollar difference makes no sense to me. We didn't put RP on the table because of cost, we did it because was unheated. Obviously the situation is different for a room owner.
 
K

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dug1903 said:
Thanks for the input. I really do appreciate it. I think my biggest worry is getting it installed corectly. I've watched the videos and I'm sure there is more going on than meets the eye. Just like in my job. It looks easy till you try to do it.
I've asked around my area and nobody has heard of RP let alone install it. Heck, most have not even done a Carom table. If anybody can point me to a good installer in Central Ia. (Des Moines) area I will give 'em a call.
As for me, I too am a beginner/novice at the game but love every minute I'm playing. I was lucky enough to pick up a Brunswick Sport King cheap. It has had the cushions replaced with a newer style. Kleber I think. I just thought new cloth would make it play even better. .
Again thanks one and all for your responses. You guys are great. Doug
Click to expand...

Assuming you did not retro-fit with a heater, you are making the same decision we had to make. And, as I said, for that application, we chose RP.

Good luck with the install. I'm sure you will love the result.
 
Texas Carom Club

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
Who's criticizing anything,
If your offended by my use of the word interesting, I don't know what to say, no worries however my days of being on the forum are now going to be a thing of the past and I'll not be offending anyone much longer

And just because you have a table doesn't mean your just swimming in cash, ask room owners
Rp for a home table because simonis, even heated was notably slower in my environment
rp always fast heating or not


If someone has experience with something we are discussing then their opinion is as good as anyones no matter what you feel your skill level is Because opinions are subjective and non typical , nothing to set in stone something to give someone an idea on a subject they may be interested in without having any experience themselves
 
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HomeBrewer

HomeBrewer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've got the previous-gen Gabriels with diamondwood rails that beneath_the_sur mentioned. It's heated, with brand new Simonis 300 installed 3 months ago by one of the most respected mechanics in the US. I love it, it's great, but I'll try Royal Pro next time.

Why not? It'll be neat to see how it plays.

Then I might go back to Simonis. I might not. I might try some $40 billiard balls off ebay, too!


I totally understand going through the analysis phase, but having done that myself I'm now at the point where I know I'm going to bounce back and forth between options for the fun of seeing how they're all different, so I don't really care which of the options I actually start with.

If Yura the installer had shown up with Royal Pro instead of Simonis (he wouldn't have, BTW), then honestly I'd have been just as happy and would be sitting here telling you I'll go Simonis the next time around to see how it plays ... ...

Life's too short to not try them all!
 
12squared

12squared

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
dug1903 said:
About ready to purchase Royal Pro. Seems like most of what I read about it is a few years old. Anybody played on it or have had it for awhile? What are your thoughts? Putting on a home table.
I want to thank Beneath The Sur for his insights. He's been great at answering my questions.
Also any installation tips would be helpful.
Click to expand...

Hi Doug,

As Kissed Out mentioned I play out of the senior center, too and yes, it has two tables as described. It's very hard to compare the two tables as they both play differently; the older brunswick w/the RB cloth plays much shorter than the Gabriels w/the Simonis, but that is not because of the cloth difference necessarily as they are very different.

I will say that the RB cloth has held up really well and has kept its speed over the year+ it's been installed. I doubt the rumbling that KO mentioned on that table has anything to do w/the cloth, more to do with what was left under the cloth during installation. Could be the slate or stuff that was left due to not thoroughly cleaning the slate. The RB does create white spots easier than the Simonis, that's a fact. But it does not seem to change the performance, just cosmetic. Appears that it would last a little longer as well. It also feels pretty cool to the touch, I feel a little dirty when I play on it. ;)

I contacted Michael Kang who owns Carom Cafe and he said he was experimenting w/the RB cloth and had several tables (not their main ones) covered w/RB and they liked it. Needed less heat as the blend of the RB does not absorb moisture like Simonis so for non-heated tables it would be a no brainer for me, and seems good on heated tables too, saving on electricity cause you could turn it down. He also mentioned about the white spots, but he liked the cloth.

Regarding cost, I totally agree w/Kissed Out that if you prefer Simonis, especially for a home table, the difference in cost should not be the reason you select one over the other. I mean a home table would not get used like a busy pool room would so either would last a very long time. But given all that I have heard about your table I think the RB would be a great choice. But there are no bad choices simply because you will have a nice 3C table in your home to enjoy.

Don't sweat the little stuff - simply hit 'em in the holes. Oh wait, that a different game, sorry. Hit 'em straight. I envy you.

Dave

Sorry, no installation tips from me, but I can make a natural. :)
 
K

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
12squared said:
Hi Doug,

As Kissed Out mentioned I play out of the senior center, too and yes, it has two tables as described. It's very hard to compare the two tables as they both play differently; the older brunswick w/the RB cloth plays much shorter than the Gabriels w/the Simonis, but that is not because of the cloth difference necessarily as they are very different.

I will say that the RB cloth has held up really well and has kept its speed over the year+ it's been installed. I doubt the rumbling that KO mentioned on that table has anything to do w/the cloth, more to do with what was left under the cloth during installation. Could be the slate or stuff that was left due to not thoroughly cleaning the slate. The RB does create white spots easier than the Simonis, that's a fact. But it does not seem to change the performance, just cosmetic. Appears that it would last a little longer as well. It also feels pretty cool to the touch, I feel a little dirty when I play on it. ;)

I contacted Michael Kang who owns Carom Cafe and he said he was experimenting w/the RB cloth and had several tables (not their main ones) covered w/RB and they liked it. Needed less heat as the blend of the RB does not absorb moisture like Simonis so for non-heated tables it would be a no brainer for me, and seems good on heated tables too, saving on electricity cause you could turn it down. He also mentioned about the white spots, but he liked the cloth.

Regarding cost, I totally agree w/Kissed Out that if you prefer Simonis, especially for a home table, the difference in cost should not be the reason you select one over the other. I mean a home table would not get used like a busy pool room would so either would last a very long time. But given all that I have heard about your table I think the RB would be a great choice. But there are no bad choices simply because you will have a nice 3C table in your home to enjoy.

Don't sweat the little stuff - simply hit 'em in the holes. Oh wait, that a different game, sorry. Hit 'em straight. I envy you.

Dave

Sorry, no installation tips from me, but I can make a natural. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks Dave, you said it far better that I would.
 
3

3cfan

Registered
I play on a Cheviotte Table with RP cloth (heater not working), It plays nice, long. Please check out Ron Kilby site for information on installing and stretching rail cloth (horizontally). Cloth was about $220 shipped. As for the rumbling balls: We also had this problem and discovered it was caused by an older set of spotted balls. After putting a dial indicator on the balls it was apparent that the spots on the ball were not flush. I cant remember but they were either recessed or raised a bit. I would guess this was from the difference in wear or shrinkage of the spots and the rest of the ball. I am a fan of Royal Pro cloth!
 
12squared

12squared

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
3cfan said:
I play on a Cheviotte Table with RP cloth (heater not working), It plays nice, long. Please check out Ron Kilby site for information on installing and stretching rail cloth (horizontally). Cloth was about $220 shipped. As for the rumbling balls: We also had this problem and discovered it was caused by an older set of spotted balls. After putting a dial indicator on the balls it was apparent that the spots on the ball were not flush. I cant remember but they were either recessed or raised a bit. I would guess this was from the difference in wear or shrinkage of the spots and the rest of the ball. I am a fan of Royal Pro cloth!
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply. Interesting observation about the rumbling of the balls.
 
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