TOI is English/Spin

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Put the CB on the head spot and OB in the center of the table.

Line up center to center, and get down on the shot using TOI (we'll say to the right).

Now, have a friend remove the OB from the table. After it's out of the way, shoot the CB into the rail.



If you've been playing pool for more than a day, then you don't even need to physically do this to know the CB will come off to the right after contacting the rail due to hitting the CB off center.

CJ has said countless times that TOI is not the same as english.
 

Timothy Rose

...........
Silver Member
going to have to agree with CJ and say TOI is not the same as inside english. You dont want the cue ball to play like inside english also... just saying and I am ok with being proven wrong also :thumbup:
 

Allen Brown

Pool Whale
Silver Member
It can't be the same as English. Let me explain. Let's say you play with touch of inside on your first shot of the rack. On your second shot you used touch of outside to make it.

Touch of Inside and Touch of Outside are the exact opposites so therefore they cannot be reffered to as just plain old English. I hope this helps.
 

slide13

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't see how you can move left or right of center ball and not have some degree of side spin, commonly called English in this little world of ours. I think the level of tip offset, and therefore spin, is very small with the TOI technique so the ball doesn't have enough spin on it to behave significanlty differently than a true center ball hit, but I personally still consider it to be the application of English....albeit a very minor application.


And yes, I have watched the DVDs.
 

victorl

Where'd my stroke go?
Silver Member
The inside spin is just enough to offset the outside spin that the cue ball gains from contact with the object ball, so the cue ball is not spinning AFTER it contacts the object ball and takes perfect angles off the rail.
You can't shoot TOI without an object ball becuase there is no inside or outside.
 

Mikjary

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
victorl,

Why would you post a basic premise of TOI in this thread? It'll never be a flame fest now! :D

Best,
Mike
 

pwd72s

recreational banger
Silver Member
How can there be a touch of inside on a perfectly straight shot? No inside or outside then, only left or right.
 

His Boy Elroy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Put the CB on the head spot and OB in the center of the table.

Line up center to center, and get down on the shot using TOI (we'll say to the right).

Now, have a friend remove the OB from the table. After it's out of the way, shoot the CB into the rail.



If you've been playing pool for more than a day, then you don't even need to physically do this to know the CB will come off to the right after contacting the rail due to hitting the CB off center.

CJ has said countless times that TOI is not the same as english.
You're not going to get anywhere going down this road with C.J. Your point has been discussed in T.O.I threads ad nauseum. There's hardly anything C.J Wiley says about pool that doesn't IMMEDIATELY resonate with me; however, I don't understand his thinking on this topic. He doesn't understand why anyone can't understand his thinking, and if you want to start another discussion of this, pretty soon everyone will just be talking in circles; trust me. Anyway; say it's English, say it's not English, call it whatever the hell you want: If you apply it the way he instructs in his writings and on his DVD, the ball will start going in more frequently.
 

Mikjary

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've stated before, with an average stroke shooting across the table from long rail to long rail, I usually get about a quarter diamond of movement on the cue ball. That's my TOI stroke. Results may vary. See your doctor if you experience an erection for more than 4 hours.:)

Best,
Mike
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So if it's not English, what is it a touch of inside of? Surely it's a touch of inside English?
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've stated before, with an average stroke shooting across the table from long rail to long rail, I usually get about a quarter diamond of movement on the cue ball. That's my TOI stroke. Results may vary. See your doctor if you experience an erection for more than 4 hours.:)

Best,
Mike

My doctor is a little too old for me :D
 

Mikjary

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My doctor is a little too old for me :D

I've got a hot nurse practitioner I'm seeing tomorrow. I'll pm her info if you want. free-sexy-smileys-940.gif

Best,
Mike
 

West Point 1987

On the Hill, Out of Gas
Silver Member
So if it's not English, what is it a touch of inside of? Surely it's a touch of inside English?

Okay, you can call it Touch of Inside English...but the whole point is that the amount is so small that there's no real inside English effect. The collision with the OB kills all spin and the CB rolls true after contact on a predictable angle. It also kills a lot of the energy at the collision so the CB doesn't run away from you. Once you get used to it, it cinches cut shots and even most banks (especially back cut banks) so strong it's spooky.

Most folks debating either side of this are over-analyzing it. It's really just a highly refined center-ball technique that reduces/cancels post collision spin and avoids run away CBs. It also forces you to hit the CB much more accurately which is worth the price of admission by itself. :smile:
 

edep12

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Okay, you can call it Touch of Inside English...but the whole point is that the amount is so small that there's no real inside English effect. The collision with the OB kills all spin and the CB rolls true after contact on a predictable angle. It also kills a lot of the energy at the collision so the CB doesn't run away from you. Once you get used to it, it cinches cut shots and even most banks (especially back cut banks) so strong it's spooky.

Most folks debating either side of this are over-analyzing it. It's really just a highly refined center-ball technique that reduces/cancels post collision spin and avoids run away CBs. It also forces you to hit the CB much more accurately which is worth the price of admission by itself. :smile:

Great post. What field did you commission into?
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The inside spin is just enough to offset the outside spin that the cue ball gains from contact with the object ball, so the cue ball is not spinning AFTER it contacts the object ball and takes perfect angles off the rail.
You can't shoot TOI without an object ball becuase there is no inside or outside.

This is what people can't seem to understand. I'm glad you do. Hopefully, they will finally catch on. Whether they use it or adopt it in their playing is up to them.

Aloha.
 
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