Pure Pool

Danny Harriman said:

Maybe it's just me but I think I have figured out 3 disciplines that are the most pure form of pocket billiards. Banks, 3- cushion, and the straight pool challenge. These disciplines all have one thing in common and that is the rack has zero impact on who has an advantage. Under today's rules the players rack for themselves, this opens the door for treachery and or cheaters. In full rack Banks most of the top players break safe and the rack has very liitle impact on the outcome of the match. In 3- cushion billiards there is no rack period, and the 14.1 challenge at DCC is another great example of untainted and pure pool. If you watch top one pocket players rack their own in one pocket the corner ball goes often as the top players will inevitably twist the rack, I have been shown how they leave the bottom two corner balls lose to make the corner ball leaving the opposing player helpless. I now know how to protect myself from the cheats now, there out there in droves. Just a few thoughts is all.

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I always thought that something like bowling and golf where you play against the game and not an actual opponent is a good test of who is the best. Not that we need to get rid of anything just add to tournaments another aspect of the game. It makes tournaments a little more fun and more of a happening thing.

Danny Harriman said:

Maybe it's just me but I think I have figured out 3 disciplines that are the most pure form of pocket billiards. Banks, 3- cushion, and the straight pool challenge. These disciplines all have one thing in common and that is the rack has zero impact on who has an advantage. Under today's rules the players rack for themselves, this opens the door for treachery and or cheaters. In full rack Banks most of the top players break safe and the rack has very liitle impact on the outcome of the match. In 3- cushion billiards there is no rack period, and the 14.1 challenge at DCC is another great example of untainted and pure pool. If you watch top one pocket players rack their own in one pocket the corner ball goes often as the top players will inevitably twist the rack, I have been shown how they leave the bottom two corner balls lose to make the corner ball leaving the opposing player helpless. I now know how to protect myself from the cheats now, there out there in droves. Just a few thoughts is all.

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Thanks for the info, Danny,

I always knew those one-pocket players were a bit "shady".

The games are flawed

The games that Danny refers to as being "cheat able" only exist that way bc of an old school way of thinking. In 9 ball if ppl would have just stopped with the ol' "you have to break hard" and instead sat down and studied what soft breakers were doing and why. Then they would have realized that 9ball with a perfect rack was no different from 14.1

It would be a continuous run game. The wing and 1 ball are wired and it's a contest of who can break and run consistently. Now I know what you're thinking, "that's not how it's supposed to be", IT IS AND IT SHOULD HAVE ALWAYS BEEN. If you think any other way then you're just blind to the fact.

Ten ball is the same way. Even more so then 9 ball. With a perfect rack you have a chance to make 4 balls. That's why SVB has the best break in the world. He knows what he's trying to accomplish in the ten ball break.

If we could just get over ourselves and admit that the triangle rack is the biggest flaw of racking, then we wouldn't be where we are today. It's an Information Age and for those of us who are left behind, who blast ppl for their know how on how to rack, it's really a counterintuitive process.

Rewrite the rules of racking by using templates first, if rack your own is the rule then, the non breaker gets to change the position of two of the balls, then sit in your chair, and enjoy watching packages being run till it's your turn. Simple

Well..,

IamCalvin06 said:

The games that Danny refers to as being "cheat able" only exist that way bc of an old school way of thinking. In 9 ball if ppl would have just stopped with the ol' "you have to break hard" and instead sat down and studied what soft breakers were doing and why. Then they would have realized that 9ball with a perfect rack was no different from 14.1

Ten ball is the same way. Even more so then 9 ball. With a perfect rack you have a chance to make 4 balls. That's why SVB has the best break in the world. He knows what he's trying to accomplish in the ten ball break.

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SVB might have the best 10 Ball break, but Ko-Pin-Ya does have something to say about that.

The soft break doesn't work on old felt consistently for running racks.

And 14.1 can have the same lack of fun for the player sitting in his chair watching a gut go 200 and out as a guy sitting and watching his opponent break and run 9 racks, soft break or hard break, corner ball wired or not.

The purity of the game is in the pleasure of high level execution.

King T said:

SVB might have the best 10 Ball break, but Ko-Pin-Ya does have something to say about that.

The soft break doesn't work on old felt consistently for running racks.

And 14.1 can have the same lack of fun for the player sitting in his chair watching a gut go 200 and out as a guy sitting and watching his opponent break and run 9 racks, soft break or hard break, corner ball wired or not.

The purity of the game is in the pleasure of high level execution.

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The thing I've always noticed about pool, is that the ones usually wanting to change/modify/update the game are the ones who AREN'T winning at the way it was created to be played.

A guy learns to jump over the ball with his cue because he can't kick. What happens? Now we have a jump cue. A guy can't hit the ball around the table with his current stroke. What happens? We get super fast cloth. A guy can't bank. What happens? He comes up with a game that is 50% ducking and hiding. A guy can't break. What happens? We get a break cue with a diamond tip and a rack that guarantees he will make one.

Is pool even pool now?

When I play somebody, I hope they play good. The worse they play, the worse I play. I don't mind losing to someone who knows how to play. I usually learn something every time I play.

Aloha

Danny Harriman said:

Maybe it's just me but I think I have figured out 3 disciplines that are the most pure form of pocket billiards. Banks, 3- cushion, and the straight pool challenge. These disciplines all have one thing in common and that is the rack has zero impact on who has an advantage. Under today's rules the players rack for themselves, this opens the door for treachery and or cheaters. In full rack Banks most of the top players break safe and the rack has very liitle impact on the outcome of the match. In 3- cushion billiards there is no rack period, and the 14.1 challenge at DCC is another great example of untainted and pure pool. If you watch top one pocket players rack their own in one pocket the corner ball goes often as the top players will inevitably twist the rack, I have been shown how they leave the bottom two corner balls lose to make the corner ball leaving the opposing player helpless. I now know how to protect myself from the cheats now, there out there in droves. Just a few thoughts is all.

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Good to have you back Danny. I agree. :smile:

John

.....................

The game is fine

HawaiianEye said:

The thing I've always noticed about pool, is that the ones usually wanting to change/modify/update the game are the ones who AREN'T winning at the way it was created to be played.

Is pool even pool now?

When I play somebody, I hope they play good. The worse they play, the worse I play. I don't mind losing to someone who knows how to play. I usually learn something every time I play.

Aloha

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I paly all the game at a competitive speed and when I play well I enjoy myself win or lose. I hate losing, but I hate playing bad just as much.

If a guy runs 50 or 60 balls on me in 14.1, well I hope I learned something from him, if a guy runs 7 racks on me, well I hope I learned something I can use...,

But I play the game as it is, I shoot the shot in front of me and the rules are the rules

IamCalvin06 said:

The games that Danny refers to as being "cheat able" only exist that way bc of an old school way of thinking. In 9 ball if ppl would have just stopped with the ol' "you have to break hard" and instead sat down and studied what soft breakers were doing and why. Then they would have realized that 9ball with a perfect rack was no different from 14.1

It would be a continuous run game. The wing and 1 ball are wired and it's a contest of who can break and run consistently. Now I know what you're thinking, "that's not how it's supposed to be", IT IS AND IT SHOULD HAVE ALWAYS BEEN. If you think any other way then you're just blind to the fact.

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Indeed. Or, 9 ball could be an alternate break game to see who can break and run consistently. That way, both players would have an equal chance to miss - you either have to win by 2 racks or the break is "stolen" when one player wins 2 successive games and then it becomes winner breaks.

In straight pool the rack is just part of the long game. In 9 or 10 ball the rack is a single game. For this reason playing, or starting with, alternate break is a purer form of pool.

Swighey said:

Indeed. Or, 9 ball could be an alternate break game to see who can break and run consistently. That way, both players would have an equal chance to miss - you either have to win by 2 racks or the break is "stolen" when one player wins 2 successive games and then it becomes winner breaks.

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If you watched the Rodney Morris vs Oscar Domiguez final at the Mezz West tournament a couple weeks back, it was exactly that. It went hill-hill with Rodney winning. It was almost a perfect match with run outs by both.

I don't think it was recorded and saved anywhere, but if it was I hope somebody posts it. That was a pleasure to watch.

Aloha

well it depends...,

In straight pool the rack is just part of the long game. In 9 or 10 ball the rack is a single game. For this reason playing, or starting with, alternate break is a purer form of pool.[/QUOTE]

But in 14.1 there is only 1 break to start the game and that can be the only time you get to the table just like 9 Ball or 10 Ball?

I think way to much is made of the break in 9 & 10 Ball, the break might have an effect in a given match, but it doesn't determine who wins over all. SVB struggles when he's not playing American players although most of those guys cant match his break. Busty doesn't win very much anymore and Archer is winning at all, three of the best breakers in the history of the game.

Danny Harriman said:

Maybe it's just me but I think I have figured out 3 disciplines that are the most pure form of pocket billiards. Banks, 3- cushion, and the straight pool challenge. These disciplines all have one thing in common and that is the rack has zero impact on who has an advantage. Under today's rules the players rack for themselves, this opens the door for treachery and or cheaters. In full rack Banks most of the top players break safe and the rack has very liitle impact on the outcome of the match. In 3- cushion billiards there is no rack period, and the 14.1 challenge at DCC is another great example of untainted and pure pool. If you watch top one pocket players rack their own in one pocket the corner ball goes often as the top players will inevitably twist the rack, I have been shown how they leave the bottom two corner balls lose to make the corner ball leaving the opposing player helpless. I now know how to protect myself from the cheats now, there out there in droves. Just a few thoughts is all.

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welcome back
:happydance:
(glad to see you recovered enough to post on AZB)

King T said:

But in 14.1 there is only 1 break to start the game and that can be the only time you get to the table just like 9 Ball or 10 Ball?

.

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But in 14.1 you can't win on the initial break unless you plan on going for a jackpot, calling a ball and pocket, and then you are going to run 150 and out.

In 9 ball you can win plenty of games by just making the game ball on the break. I've done it 3 times in a row before and plenty of two packs of 9 on the break.

So the breaks mean a lot to whomever is breaking good and controlling it. Look at the top Taiwanese players...that is what they do. Besides shoot the lights out on any shot anyway.

You may never get to shoot in a set with these guys if it is winner breaks.

Yeah, but you break pretty good in 9 ball..

Danny Harriman said:

Maybe it's just me but I think I have figured out 3 disciplines that are the most pure form of pocket billiards. Banks, 3- cushion, and the straight pool challenge. These disciplines all have one thing in common and that is the rack has zero impact on who has an advantage. Under today's rules the players rack for themselves, this opens the door for treachery and or cheaters. In full rack Banks most of the top players break safe and the rack has very liitle impact on the outcome of the match. In 3- cushion billiards there is no rack period, and the 14.1 challenge at DCC is another great example of untainted and pure pool. If you watch top one pocket players rack their own in one pocket the corner ball goes often as the top players will inevitably twist the rack, I have been shown how they leave the bottom two corner balls lose to make the corner ball leaving the opposing player helpless. I now know how to protect myself from the cheats now, there out there in droves. Just a few thoughts is all.

Click to expand...

I think there is something to what Macguy says. Playing against the game instead of a competitor can be instructive. I try to play 18 racks of 3-ball each day. Write down my scores, and I can really see how my game is trending. Plus it makes practice more fun. It is not the only game I play, but it is one of my favorites.

HawaiianEye said:

You may never get to shoot in a set with these guys if it is winner breaks.

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For me alternate break is inherent to the purity of 9 ball (but by all means allow it to be stolen). There seems to be a (mis)conception around that a player can't run the table on alternate breaks - actually both players can run the table, they just have to do it every other game. Winner breaks is fine for cash, where the mental game is very different, or for "long" (which of course depends on the level of the players) races in tournaments.

I guess "purity" is subjective anyway as banks and one pocket are both contrived games designed to test a particular skill set. "One pocket banks" would be a further contrived game. Straight pool is the purest in my opinion. It's one of the games the number and colours on the balls are designed for along with 8 ball and 9 ball. 8 and 9 really only suffer from the continued debate about what the best rules are.

Danny Harriman said:

Maybe it's just me but I think I have figured out 3 disciplines that are the most pure form of pocket billiards. Banks, 3- cushion, and the straight pool challenge. These disciplines all have one thing in common and that is the rack has zero impact on who has an advantage. Under today's rules the players rack for themselves, this opens the door for treachery and or cheaters. In full rack Banks most of the top players break safe and the rack has very liitle impact on the outcome of the match. In 3- cushion billiards there is no rack period, and the 14.1 challenge at DCC is another great example of untainted and pure pool. If you watch top one pocket players rack their own in one pocket the corner ball goes often as the top players will inevitably twist the rack, I have been shown how they leave the bottom two corner balls lose to make the corner ball leaving the opposing player helpless. I now know how to protect myself from the cheats now, there out there in droves. Just a few thoughts is all.

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I would agree that those games are purer than others but all of the games have rolls. Some days it seems when its your turn you just don't get much opportunity and those are the days you sit in your seat frustrated. Seems like these days rack inspection has become important. The purest pool I ever played was the Ghost. The most satisfying pool I ever played was One Pocket because I love banking part of the game and the creation of new ways to make angles. Straight Pool isn't played a lot in North Carolina but its a great game no doubt, its on my to do list.

My friend and I practice with what I call "total offense straight pool".
Normal 14.1 rules apply, except that the shot may be passed back if the incoming player so chooses.
We don't play to a set number, instead we keep track of our runs, and at the end of our session highest run wins.

Takes the lucky leaves right out of the picture, as well as the grind of back and forth safeties. While both are an important part of the game, we feel our practice time is best spent how we do it.

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How do they twist the rack?