Jay Helfert resigned as Tourney Director at the US Open

Kickin' Chicken said:

Fran;

Have you ever tried reasoning with an unreasonable, mean, drunk?

If you haven't, then it's understandable that you would be suggesting such optimistic solutions that might fly with a normal person.

Barry isn't normal.

Jay was in a lousy spot.

best,
brian kc

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Jay was definitely in a lousy spot. You weren't there and neither was I, but it was his job to understand that the tournament promoter, drunk or not, who just added $70,000 to this event --- free and clear --- found himself in a predicament.

You can be combative or you can do what you're supposed to do, which is look into the matter. Whatever the outcome, drunk or not, you have to do your homework and give it your best shot.

Again, I say --- that was not done here.

There is no homework. There is a right and a wrong. Jay did right. Barry and Allen did wrong. If ONE player wouldn't have agreed into putting Allen into the tourney, that is one too many. It's obvious that Fran doesn't get it and never will.

watchez said:

There is no homework. There is a right and a wrong. Jay did right. Barry and Allen did wrong. If ONE player wouldn't have agreed into putting Allen into the tourney, that is one too many. It's obvious that Fran doesn't get it and never will.

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This --> HERE

FranCrimi said:

Jay was definitely in a lousy spot. You weren't there and neither was I, but it was his job to understand that the tournament promoter, drunk or not, who just added $70,000 to this event --- free and clear --- found himself in a predicament.

You can be combative or you can do what you're supposed to do, which is look into the matter. Whatever the outcome, drunk or not, you have to do your homework and give it your best shot.

Again, I say --- that was not done here.

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At the end of the day its the Tournament Director's call. The promoter tried to twist the Tournament Director's arm and paid the price.

Anyone with any level of integrity would have done the same. Corruption doesn't help the game of pool. Integrity most certainly will.

I have no dog in this fight, but I do despise corrupt people; and I have huge respect for people of integrity.

JAM said:

Very good point, and this is true, but I did not insult Jay the way Allen was insulted in that one post. Go re-read it and let me know what you think, whether Allen was insulted or not about things that had *nothing* to do with the subject matter of this thread.

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it's totally cool and I enjoy your posts on this site.....it's all good in the hood

Thanks JAM, your compliment means a lot to me. I know we've clashed at times in various threads. Lots of my posts have been sarcastic in an attempt to be funny and clown around and not take AZB topics too seriously. I guess you could say I don't take things here too seriously because I have other non AZB related things that are much more serious to me. So I would use the forum as a release in a childish way and as such I might have gone overboard where my attempted humor on this forum has been misunderstood.

Other times I can be a big jerk and pile on with others when they are tearing someone down. Sometimes I would find my self ratcheting up my sarcastic posts in response to anyone who I felt was taking any topic too seriously. Because you often act with purpose and use this forum to strongly voice your concerns and beliefs you became a great target for me. But I always felt like a big jerk after messing with you. Why did I feel bad about that?.. because you are a good person and you stand up for people who have been torn down and dragged through the mud here. You would truly be a good friend to have. When I think of you I visualize you saving stranded kittens in the winter or serving meals at the soup kitchen.

I have made a big change in my life and I'm trying to be a kinder, more tolerant person to everyone. I've been reading Dale Carnegie again and practicing up on his principals. So I apologize for any rudeness I've displayed in the past.

Having said that, I must respectfully disagree, not with you but with your opinion that it's OK to change the bracket once it's drawn. Only reason I'm digging my heels in so firmly is because I'm holding on to the believe that the US Open is the most prestigious event in pool. But that hope is fading fast over the years watching Barry attempt to destroy our highest held event. I respect what Barry created but I loath how he has managed it. I want to think the US Open is bigger than Barry and that someone might take it over and give it the respect it deserves. On the other hand, I guess I could change my mind and care less about the Open. If you ever hear me say something like "well, what the hell, change the brackets and let Allen play, it's just the US Open" you've know I don't care any longer.

JAM said:

This is one of the *best* posts I have read on this forum from you. It is well written and covers a lot of territory.

I was with you all the way until you got to the end about Allen. If it had been Keith who was promised a spot in the tournament and we planned to attend this event by me taking off work, saving a couple grand to pay for expenses, making hotel arrangements, packing our clothes for a week, arriving 2 days early to practice and get settled in so Keith would be able to perform well, we both would have extremely upset.

A mistake was made, an oversight, and because of this, everybody has a different takeaway on how it should have been handled. Allen's good name has been slighted, and he did nothing wrong. In the end, whether any of us like it or not, the promoter has the final say. He's adding the the extra monies, and it is his call when things come to a head, as it has here. Of course Jay is free to do what he believes is the right thing, and he did.

And sometimes players never check the chart until they make time to go over to where the chart is displayed. They may be at Q-Masters practicing or enjoying the local sights or visiting with friends or entertaining in their hotel rooms. Not all players scramble to the tournament chart as soon as it is done. They just don't. I'm sure Allen didn't give a hoot *who* he played. He just wanted to compete. He had been gearing up for this tournament back home by practicing his game, llong before day one. Efren Reyes is 61 years old, and he's still capable of scoring a big W, and so is a champion like Allen. Further, it's not always about the win. It's about getting out of the stable and running the race. This is what Allen wanted to do.

Everyone, as Hungarian states so eloquently, is entitled to their opinion, but to throw insults at other members like Fran is why this forum has become unpopular with many industry members, pro players, instructional authors, pool's fourth estate, and Hall of Famers. You can disgaree, like Hungarian has done in his/her closing paragraph, without attacking others.

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FranCrimi said:

Jay was definitely in a lousy spot. You weren't there and neither was I, but it was his job to understand that the tournament promoter, drunk or not, who just added $70,000 to this event --- free and clear --- found himself in a predicament.

You can be combative or you can do what you're supposed to do, which is look into the matter. Whatever the outcome, drunk or not, you have to do your homework and give it your best shot.

Again, I say --- that was not done here.

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Had this been an isolated incident, folks wouldn't be so angry. But Barry doesn't get the benifit of the doubt, nor does he deserve it. In fact, this is just par for the course. He has earned the scorn of the supporting public and the players, worldwide.

NYC cue dude said:

Had this been an isolated incident, folks wouldn't be so angry. But Barry doesn't get the benifit of the doubt, nor does he deserve it. In fact, this is just par for the course. He has earned the scorn of the supporting public and the players, worldwide.

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I'm just going to put this here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXXFWmQ3WRY

poolmouse said:

I'm just going to put this here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXXFWmQ3WRY

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How can you not get behind such quality human, just shitting on players and laughing in there face.

"For hes a jolly good fellow..."

Everybody now

As I compose this reply to this Devil of a Thread, I noted that we had reached tha appropriate post #666.

The thread was closed after Post #408.
Now I am curious about the decision maker's (was it Mr Wilson?) thought process which caused him to stop people commenting on the subject matter.
The reopening of the thread and the subsequent 160+ posts that it has attrtacted must put a question mark over the moderator's judgement.

Could he reveal his reasons so that we all can avoid these pitfalls in the future. Was he trying to protect the ....Game, the...promoter, the Tournament Director, the players?

Pray do tell us.

if the opinions expounded by some of our feminine members in this thread is a precursor of a probable hilly presidency we will live a nightmare which gets worse and worse...imo

ribdoner said:

if the opinions expounded by some of our feminine members in this thread is a precursor of a probable hilly presidency we will live a nightmare which gets worse and worse...imo

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Geezy peezy, save it for NPR, man! :grin:

People do say I look a little like Hilly. What do you think?:grin:

I think I'll add another Allen Hopkins photo to the thread. Never forget this tournament at Bob Maidoff's Drexeline Billiards in Drexel Hill, PA. There were some strong contenders in this one -- Karen Corr, Dennis Hatch, Shawn Wilke, Mike Miller, Jalapena, Santos, Jose Parica -- and those are just the ones I can remember.

BTW, Karen beat Jose at this event. Jose wasn't too happy.

When I saw those trophies sitting behind the counter, I really, really wanted Keith to win. I didn't care about the money; I wanted that trophy. By golly, it came down to Allen v. Keith, and I was sweating bullets. Keith managed to edge out to the finish line before Allen, and I got that big trophy. Keith was so proud to win that trophy for me, but he was more interested in the cash. I love this photo!

JAM said:

This --> HERE

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:rotflmao1::rotflmao1::killingme: In my opinion!

Nine ... corner said:

:rotflmao1::rotflmao1::killingme: In my opinion!

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In my opinion (see below):

FranCrimi said:

(...) The first scenario is not Barry's style. The second one is, however, a smart TD would have realized that what Barry really meant was the first scenario, even though he sounded like the second (...)

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Fran thinks that Jay is not a smart TD

In her opinion, of course

JAM said:

Geezy peezy, save it for NPR, man! :grin:

People do say I look a little like Hilly. What do you think?:grin:

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if hilly had your looks all the cosmetic surgery she endured would have been obviated

FranCrimi said:

Very insightful post here. The first scenario is not Barry's style. The second one is, however, a smart TD would have realized that what Barry really meant was the first scenario, even though he sounded like the second.

The answer is to read between the lines and respond to him as if he were acting in the first scenario.

The answer should have been: Okay Barry, I hear you, and let me chew on this for a bit and try to figure something out before the matches begin. Maybe then the TD calls on a few of the top players in the event and gets their opinions, or makes a few calls. Then he gathers the troops to try to find a solution -- or, even maybe to confirm that there wasn't a solution. Then after the research was done, report back to Barry with a lot more information and possible scenarios. Then maybe sit down with Barry and Allen together and review the scenarios. Perhaps with more information and a level head, both Barry and Allen would have decided to leave things be. Or maybe a workable solution would have been found that works for everyone. Nobody knows how things would have progressed with more information, calm behavior on the part of the TD, and some logical thinking.

None of that was done.

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It's hard to buy into the idea you're a good judge of a 'smart tournament director' as I would say Jay is much more successful as a tournament director than you are as anything especially as a pool player. It's not like you were a Jean Balukas or someone of stature in the game.

I know all three involved and I'll take Jay's side of it. I don't have a big issue with Allen as he got caught up in Barry's screw up. But Barry has created his own mess and deserves all the bad press and issues that go with it. Hopefully there will be a qualified promoter come along after Barry goes under to take this event back to where it once was.

JAM said:

I know you have competed in many professional tournaments over the years, as well as invested a lot of dough in the professional tournament trail. As a player, if you traveled to the Open and you were in Allen's shoes, I am curious as to what you would have done.

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No simple answer....tho common sense is deafening.....and excuses are samo/samo.

JAM said:

Geezy peezy, save it for NPR, man! :grin:

People do say I look a little like Hilly. What do you think?:grin:

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Yeah, slight resemblance, but in a way one brother looks "similar" to another even though one is good looking and the other pretty average You're way prettier, and I suspect a lot classier

ChicagoRJ said:

You're way prettier, and I suspect a lot classier

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Ya think?