Predator Revo shaft full review and deflection test

chaozzzsg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Had a chance to test out the revo shaft today. I must say that I was skeptical about the claims but boy was I wrong. The hit is solid with very good feedback unlike the 314, this is coming from me that plays with a southwest. The only downside is the black color and the price point.
 

jeremy8000

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The only downside is the black color and the price point.

I suspect that having shaft in black initially is serving two purposes: first, to visually distinguish it from the rest of what's out there, giving it an attention-grab that some buyers might want; and second, to reduce the severity of visibility of any possible long-term staining.

If the latter isn't actually a big thing, I'd be very surprised if they don't introduce a 'natural' wood color variant, either when they introduce the Revo shafts as a stand-alone option, or shortly thereafter.

Also curious as to whether the design and materials of the Revo will allow for its being offered as a 'partial' that can be properly matched for size/pin/ringwork to a cue.
 

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I recently got off the phone with a representative at Predator cues in order to get the most valid information regarding our discussion here on the Revo shaft.

After a twenty minute conversation, here are the answers and information passed along....
In no particular order....

- Paul Costain has spent 12 years developing the shaft which is known as the Revo. Recently, many variations have been made and sent out to various players. This will explain Bob Jewitt having a 12.0mm revo.

- the rep could not answer completely if pros are getting the standard size 12.9mm or a modified diameter Revo shaft. He did know that a player like Jasmine O has made a full switch to the Revo while others like Darren Appleton has gone through different variations of the shaft in search of settling on it. To date he only uses it for one pocket and depending on the game, will switch back to his 314-2 shafts. Again he wasn't aware of Appleton's thoughts as to if it's the diameter or taper which he won't settle on.

- the rep swears he played a Z shaft for years and was a big fan of the Z3 so he was also disappointed when they announced the decision to kick out the Revo at 12.9mm. However he says it took him about a half a month to adjust and after he did he believes a smaller diameter would be too small. He explained about the 5% taper over the first 14" and the feel is perfect. I asked about the loss of real estate on the cue ball while sighting from an 11.75mm and adjusting up to a 12.9mm and he explained that you don't need it anymore because with the Revo you play closer to center, whereas before what you would play a full tip outside, you only need half a tip because of the difference in transfer of energy.

- Paul Costain is the mad scientist that has been working on this for more than a decade and the recently converted the research facility into the manufacturing facility in Boston for the Revo. It is a small operation and they only have the capabilities of making about 500 Revo shafts a quarter. So this explains the limitations in joint selection and sizes.

- They made the decision to put it out there this year to see how the world would embrace it but in a controlled way. They didn't want someone taking a Revo and playing with it on a Players cue butt, experiencing bad results and giving it a bad review. They also were more aware that further testing needed to be done on the various joint makes, and butts to see if the Revo could produce the same results as they did with the P3 butts.

- as it stands now on the production calendar, there are no plans for any other versions of Revo up through the fiscal year of 2017. He could not say for certain that the Revo won't be introduced in smaller diameters but testing is always on going with variations having been made (explaining Bob Jewett's 12.0mm)

Again, this was all gathered through a conversation with a sales representative and information about "getting used to it" or "making the switch takes 2 weeks" is purely speculative and could be the sales part of the salesman talking. Obviously, in the professional world, some players ( like Darren) have found it tough to make the full time transition. Some conclusions can be drawn from this.

Personally, in my opinion, from the information gathered, this is still a work in progress and predator decided to recoup some expenses by converting the research facility into a small manufacturing facility, deciding on one 12.9mm diameter and taking it to market in a limited run format (500 per quarter)

This was done to see not only what the market demands in terms of varying sizes, the professionals under the predator umbrella feedback, but also to make a little back on the years of research investment. IMO they have the capabilities of varying diameter sizes, but it's not worth it to make a made to order shaft. Even though the sales rep days a 12.0mm would be too small, Bob J indicates he wishes it was smaller, so again, it's all subjective on the 12.9mm.

My thoughts are, follow Darren and see what he settled on.
This is an ongoing project for Predator and nothing is set in stone. To me it's not about the money as it is the time in adjusting to equipment and possible change/loss of game (which is more valuable). As a player, you put in the hours on the table of work, and now you must put in hours to adjust to equipment. I am no Darren Appleton, and if he can't adjust with all the powers of predator at his disposal, how could my limited abilities cope when ordering a standard size from a dealer that can't be modified?

I finished the call with congratulating predator on working to bring technology to the forefront and advancing the game. Revo is surely different and will make them some money. But I'll closely watch Darren and stick with the maple wood for now.

Just an update....

Not sure if you follow Darren on face book, but it looks like he just go he's revo back from predator and he's going to take the plunge..Some of his comments are interesting..

Thank you for the heads up!

Yes, very interesting. Looks like they custom made a Revo for Darren in weight adjustment and tip diameter 12.4mm
Below is quoted from Darren Facebook page....

Daniel Gilmore
Why has your revo shaft been sent back numerous times? Are you playing the stock cue off the shelf other then tip change? What weight

Hide · Yesterday at 2:23pm
Darren "Dynamite" Appleton
I wanted changes weight balance tip pad clear, feel , some not enough deflection or too much this one seems more to my liking etc couldn't get them right before ...👍

Hide · Yesterday at 2:30pm
Darren "Dynamite" Appleton
Darren "Dynamite" Appleton weight I haven't a clue lol leave that to experts .. The cue around 19oz

2Hide · Yesterday at 2:30pm
Daniel Gilmore
So basically all custom compared to a off shelf model

Hide · Yesterday at 2:32pm
Gary Serrano
Most off shelf cues comes in 19oz unless you tell them different before shipping imo and most companies stick shaft is 12.75 unless told otherwise

Hide · Yesterday at 2:33pm
Gary Serrano
But the revo is standard I believe at 12.75mm

Hide · Yesterday at 2:34pm
Daniel Gilmore
Revo is 12.9mm

1Hide · Yesterday at 2:34pm
Darren "Dynamite" Appleton
Mine latest prototype I test all equipment for predator cues .. Latest is 12.4
 

anbukev

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
While browsing pool videos on youtube I came across Carlo Biado playing with the Revo shaft in this video:

https://youtu.be/loyQOv8eYt8

It seems that it was his first time hitting with it. Predator website states that he shoots with the Vantage shaft. Both the Vantage shaft and Revo shaft have the same diameter of 12.9. Thought you guys would be interested in watching him adjust to it.
 

and1_fm

Registered
Do we really need this shaft ? I mean how is the performance of this shaft ? compare with 314", or Mezz Hp2 ? any big difference ?

Right now I'm playing with Schon LTD920 with Hp2 shafts. Break with JnJ cues I just change the phenolic tip to Sonic Tip and it breaks really great, the cueball control just awesome.
Also I have P3BW with 314" shaft and Ikon2-2 with 314" shaft.

I want to buy or try this Revo shaft, but I also want to buy BK3 break cues.

Which one do you think it's more useful ? buy revo shaft and use my p3bw butt or buy BK3 ? I heard that the technology they use in p3 revo butt and in p3bw butt is same.

Please help, thank you
 

Jsnstanley

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’m new to the LD and my cuts are off right now. But otherwise the REVO shaft to me feels solid and crisp. It’s impressively smooth and STAYS smooth. I’m sweaty palm and don’t use talc. I have to keep my hands clean for smooth play ability using a 12mm shaft normally. The REVO has taken my game up as far as ‘consistency in feel’ during play. Even so comfortably in12.9mm. Performs very well too. Better or not better than other LD ????? Feels excellent and has ultimate durability. I dig it

Btw…Ditched the Vict. < Kamui Black Soft clear
 

nycdarkness

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do we really need this shaft ? I mean how is the performance of this shaft ? compare with 314", or Mezz Hp2 ? any big difference ?

Right now I'm playing with Schon LTD920 with Hp2 shafts. Break with JnJ cues I just change the phenolic tip to Sonic Tip and it breaks really great, the cueball control just awesome.
Also I have P3BW with 314" shaft and Ikon2-2 with 314" shaft.

I want to buy or try this Revo shaft, but I also want to buy BK3 break cues.

Which one do you think it's more useful ? buy revo shaft and use my p3bw butt or buy BK3 ? I heard that the technology they use in p3 revo butt and in p3bw butt is same.

Please help, thank you

As I stated in my other post in the other revo thread. You can try to buy the shaft invidually but it would have to be used as no dealer is allowed to sell you just the shaft. The p3 revo butt has different feel that the standard p3 butt. The standard p3 butt feels much more dead and hollow with the revo shaft. I've tried the revo shaft on the p3 revo wrapped, p3 revo wrapless, p3 exotic, p3 black wrapless, p3 white racer (current limited) bk3/sport 2 butt, roadline sneaky, and throne 3. They all feel different with the revo shaft. The revo butt is without doubt clearly better. I am not saying it impacts the shaft performance, it just has a much more solid feel.
 

and1_fm

Registered
As I stated in my other post in the other revo thread. You can try to buy the shaft invidually but it would have to be used as no dealer is allowed to sell you just the shaft. The p3 revo butt has different feel that the standard p3 butt. The standard p3 butt feels much more dead and hollow with the revo shaft. I've tried the revo shaft on the p3 revo wrapped, p3 revo wrapless, p3 exotic, p3 black wrapless, p3 white racer (current limited) bk3/sport 2 butt, roadline sneaky, and throne 3. They all feel different with the revo shaft. The revo butt is without doubt clearly better. I am not saying it impacts the shaft performance, it just has a much more solid feel.

What about bk3 ? Do you think it i has biggest difference in breaking the balls ? Compare with my jnj+sonic tip ? Thank you your time answering my question.
 

nycdarkness

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What about bk3 ? Do you think it i has biggest difference in breaking the balls ? Compare with my jnj+sonic tip ? Thank you your time answering my question.

I've had the bk3 since it came out. I owned the bk2 prior for a brief period of time. I've used custom break cues as well, as well as a couple other production not too pricey break cues. I found with the bk3 I can get more of a spread with less power. I play mostly 9 ball, having to break less hard helps me control my break better for me. I've tried my bk3 at 18oz and 19oz. I like the way it breaks, feels rather effortless to get a nice spread. I think you can break just as well with any other break cue, but as most people who tried my bk3 out since I've owned it all have agreed that it takes less power to get a similar result. If that's worth the cost is up to you.
 

Albatross Cues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
P3 Revo Review

Aloha

Been a while since I have been on here. I have been contemplating the Revo since its introduction to the masses. Didn't want to go all in on the first ones as the price was a little high and the cue itself was not really appealing to me. Settled on the P3GN. When it was ordered, I speed it out with a Moori Med tip, instead of the victory predator tip. I had hit with the victory tips prior and am not a fan, and wanted no reason to dislike the cue from the start. Ordered the cue 19oz standard.

I have played with a Predator shaft since the late 90's what I got my first 314 pre-cat. I have been a fan since then. I now own 9 pre-cat shafts ranging from 12.5-10.75mm. Everyone of them hits great. Shot a lot over the years with Moori's so figured start with the standard I have been used to.

Got the cue this last weekend and all I can say is Wow! Home run Predator! Straight out of the package the tooling comes out. THe cue came in at 19.4 oz. I proceeded to remove the .2 oz weight from the rear and install the butt cap for the Predator extension. The cue is now 66.5" long and sitting just under 22.75oz.

Proceeded to hit some balls and the first thing I noticed was being able to stroke straight through the contact point even with extreme English. The cue took me a few racks to get used to, but from the start I noticed an improvement. Missed some shots that required spinning out for shape due to the fact that I was adjusting to the deflection I was used to on my pre-cat shafts. This Revo will let you know just how much deflection your old shaft actually has. Takes the guessing and adjusting for squirt almost completely out of the picture. Truly amazing!!!

The cue has a great resignation and feedback. Different from anything I have ever experienced and in a good way. Some strokes down the line and it is feeling even more like home.

If you prior LD shaft felt like a good massage, the Revo is the massage with the happy ending, rub through and swallowing clean up. If you have the opportunity all I can say is try it.

Aloha
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Why doesn't Predator publish some experiments and data that can be peer reviewed. Everyone I know who has hit with this shaft loves it, people I respect highly as players. Allan McCarthy, one of the founders and former owners of Predator and I spoke about CF for pool cues a good 18 years ago. So I know it's been on their mind for a while. And anyone who knows anything about CF knows it's expensive to deal with at every level.

But...having said that I want to see some concrete data based on tests that can be replicated by anyone anywhere else. I do not think that Predator is only marketing hype. But I do distrust reviews that have a lot of subjectivity in them while purporting to show objective measuring. It's really simple, humans are bad at being consistent unless they are performing at an extremely high level.

So the moment you put a human in as the "shooter" then you have only that person's particular ability to go on as to the viability of the data presented. Anecdotal information is good but better when backed up by tests that are repeatable.
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Why doesn't Predator publish some experiments and data that can be peer reviewed. Everyone I know who has hit with this shaft loves it, people I respect highly as players.

Why do they need to ? Baseball bats use carbon fiber, and they are not required to have a full report on exactly how far the ball will fly, and the speed it comes off the bat, etc. The company's that have a history of producing superior bats, Miken, DeMarini, Easton, don't need to support their products. They've proved it for years.

So, yeah, maybe the "little" guy wants to produce reports, data and charts to measure up to the top dogs to gain a little traction in the market, but folks that already own the market don't need to provide any date imho.

Folks are gonna like what they like, regardless of any data or report. Heck, I can give you a long report of the best made cars sold in America, and guess what, more people than not will NOT buy that particular brand. Oh, they will sell well, but for the most part more folks will chose one of the other couple dozen brands.

There are too many "negative nellies" out in the pool world that would gladly tell you if some new product was crap, and I've heard nothing negative so far about this. I'm not a Predator fan, but respect what they have done and how they go about their business. And if this means more companies will start using CF, then great :cool:
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why doesn't Predator publish some experiments and data that can be peer reviewed. Everyone I know who has hit with this shaft loves it, people I respect highly as players. Allan McCarthy, one of the founders and former owners of Predator and I spoke about CF for pool cues a good 18 years ago. So I know it's been on their mind for a while. And anyone who knows anything about CF knows it's expensive to deal with at every level.

But...having said that I want to see some concrete data based on tests that can be replicated by anyone anywhere else. I do not think that Predator is only marketing hype. But I do distrust reviews that have a lot of subjectivity in them while purporting to show objective measuring. It's really simple, humans are bad at being consistent unless they are performing at an extremely high level.

So the moment you put a human in as the "shooter" then you have only that person's particular ability to go on as to the viability of the data presented. Anecdotal information is good but better when backed up by tests that are repeatable.

I have a feeling that there are some here that will spot the irony :D
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
why doesn't predator publish some experiments and data that can be peer reviewed. Everyone i know who has hit with this shaft loves it, people i respect highly as players. Allan mccarthy, one of the founders and former owners of predator and i spoke about cf for pool cues a good 18 years ago. So i know it's been on their mind for a while. And anyone who knows anything about cf knows it's expensive to deal with at every level.

But...having said that i want to see some concrete data based on tests that can be replicated by anyone anywhere else. I do not think that predator is only marketing hype. But i do distrust reviews that have a lot of subjectivity in them while purporting to show objective measuring. It's really simple, humans are bad at being consistent unless they are performing at an extremely high level.

So the moment you put a human in as the "shooter" then you have only that person's particular ability to go on as to the viability of the data presented. Anecdotal information is good but better when backed up by tests that are repeatable.

you cannot be serious!
 

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bob b.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why doesn't Predator publish some experiments and data that can be peer reviewed. Everyone I know who has hit with this shaft loves it, people I respect highly as players. Allan McCarthy, one of the founders and former owners of Predator and I spoke about CF for pool cues a good 18 years ago. So I know it's been on their mind for a while. And anyone who knows anything about CF knows it's expensive to deal with at every level.

But...having said that I want to see some concrete data based on tests that can be replicated by anyone anywhere else. I do not think that Predator is only marketing hype. But I do distrust reviews that have a lot of subjectivity in them while purporting to show objective measuring. It's really simple, humans are bad at being consistent unless they are performing at an extremely high level.

So the moment you put a human in as the "shooter" then you have only that person's particular ability to go on as to the viability of the data presented. Anecdotal information is good but better when backed up by tests that are repeatable.


Hi John,

Have you tried one yet? YOUR opinion? Just curious, I wish someone in KC area had one, I'd like to try myself.
 

Jsnstanley

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Had to get over the OCD of residue chalk on the shaft, as it really can be bothersome to me visually, rolling the cue to a clean area as/or before stroking. (Because of the Dark color). I also never preferred LD over my solid maples @ 12mm. Though, After learning the new shaft and breaking “Myself” in, I’m really digging this. It’s Great player! Whether you care for the style or not is preference… Low Def. , Carbon Comp. , Sounds different,.. Whatever.. Fact is, It plays incredibly well and is a contender to any and all great playing shafts out there. The fact that it’s very resistant to dings and warpage, Not to mention how smooth it consistently plays, tells me this will be a very popular tool in the world of pool.. and many will follow.
 
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