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scruggs or mc-daniels ?????
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scruggs or mc-daniels ????? - 03-22-2013, 01:40 AM

who do you guys think is a better cue maker? ???? Tim scruggs or bill mcdaniel or wich one does it hits better? ?


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03-22-2013, 12:08 PM

I have owned a bunch Bill Mcdaniel cues and maybe 10 Scruggs cues. I have played with both alot.
No doubt in my opnion, Bill Mcdaniel. Bill's cues are more playable, and cues hit and feel are more consistent from cue to cue. Mcdaniel Custom Cues are put together so well.
Mr. Scruggs cues are very stiff and his cues are not a consistent hitting cue. Very few cues hit feels the same.
  
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03-22-2013, 12:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dacue View Post
I have owned a bunch Bill Mcdaniel cues and maybe 10 Scruggs cues. I have played with both alot.
No doubt in my opnion, Bill Mcdaniel. Bill's cues are more playable, and cues hit and feel are more consistent from cue to cue. Mcdaniel Custom Cues are put together so well.
Mr. Scruggs cues are very stiff and his cues are not a consistent hitting cue. Very few cues hit feels the same.
I agree completly with dacue. Mcdaniel cue play awesome. I have owned 5 other than weight they played the same. I am sure you will get opinions saying Scruggs play better also.



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03-22-2013, 06:44 PM

Dave is right about Bill's Cues, he was a Genius at his time, lucky to have the last one with real Diamonds from him
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No Difference.......It's Make Believe.......
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No Difference.......It's Make Believe....... - 03-23-2013, 10:13 AM

The difference is not discernible.....anyone thinking otherwise just has a skewed outlook.

When you get down to the really elite cue-makers.........McDaniels being just one of them and Tim Scruggs also being another.......the declaration of any genuine difference would be based more on looks and subliminal appeal rather than structural, i.e., playability or playing preference. To make any comparison would require two cues from the two different cue-makers with identical specs, i.e., ferrules, cue tip and tip shape, cue weight, shaft diameter and taper, cue joint, wrap, identical butt cap material (not Delrin vs Ivory). etc.

Well, that's never going to happen simply because of availability and selection and in all likelihood, any two cues compared would have some differences that could tangibly affect the player's impression and overall evaluation of the cues in question. I mean comparing a 18.8 oz flat faced ivory joint with a 19.6 oz steel joint cue is hardly a fair comparison as would comparing a steel joint cue with ivory ferrules that weighed 19 ozs with another steel joint cue with phenolic ferrules which weighed 20.3 ozs. The same applies to comparing cues with different shaft specs.....one cue has a shaft with a 12.75mm pro taper length of 13-14 inches vs another cue's shaft that's 13.05mm with a taper length of 8-10 inches. What if one cue had a medium layered cue tip dime shaped and the other cue being compared had a hard solid leather tip that was nickel shaped......another comparison point that's not fair.

Perhaps you tried a cue that wasn't yours but you didn't care for it. Maybe the cue was too heavy, the ferrules were melamine instead of ivory, the cue you tried had a different tip than what you play with or was shaped differently than what you have on your cues' tips, or maybe the shaft diameter or taper was different etc.

Unless you compare apples to apples.....same cue weight , materials, and especially the type of cue joint, then any comparison you render is admittedly flawed and probably influenced by your subliminal preference for the look and style of a cue as much as any actual difference in playability or overall feel.

McDaniels vs Scruggs.....a tie.....and probably the same applies when comparing McDaniels or Scruggs cues with cues made by Verl Horn, Bill Stroud, Dennis Searing, Pete Tascarella, Bill Schick, Ernie Guiterrez, Paul Mottey, Richard Black, Ed Prewitt, Joel Hercek, etc. .........Alright.....maybe I stretched a bit by including full splice cue-makers in with everyone but I don't think so.

The underlying fact is when you own or even just play with a cue that you like its design/look and the cue has the right specs just the way you prefer a cue to have.......you're going to admire and appreciate that cue a whole lot more than a cue by any other cue-maker, even Burton Spain or Balabushka or Gus Szamboti. And frankly, I think these last two cue-makers are over-rated with undue praise versus the cue-makers I mentioned. After all, old Gus and George were just buying blanks and only finished the cues and so I'd much rather have a Hercek cue over the work Gus and George did.

And yes, I have played with a Gus Szamboti and also a George Balabushka cue........never owned either......and both cues were just too heavy, the cue butts too big and hit just like my early Schon does. All of three cues had the same feel and I was able to do a side by side comparison with my Runde Schon, albeit that there was a few years gap involved with playing with a Gus Szamboti cue and a George Balabushka cue. I mean I wasn't impressed in the slightest with any discernible difference but again, as I earlier pointed out, the cues all had slight differences which IMO prejudices the final subjective comparison and evaluation of the cues.

Anyway, That's my take on the subject and I'm betting my views will be in the minority expressed on the Forum about this topic......but to each their own.


"My Pool Cues"

*Bob Owen Custom- Level 8 (s/d 4-24-16) - Flat Ivory Joint
*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 6 (s/d 5-4-16) - Flat Ivory Joint

*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 8 (s/d 2-23-15) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Ed Prewitt Custom '05 - Level 8 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Bob Owen Custom - Level 8 (s/d 5-4-14) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Tim Scruggs Custom (9-6-95) Level 7 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Runde Schon '85 Custom "R" Series (1 of 1)
*Palmer (Original) - '72 (All Cocobolo Wood)

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03-24-2013, 07:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavafongoul View Post
There difference is not discernible.....anyone thinking otherwise just has a skewed outlook.

When you get down to the really elite cue-makers.........McDaniels being just one of them and Tim Scruggs also being another.......the declaration of any genuine difference would be based more on looks and subliminal appeal rather than structural, i.e., playability or playing preference. To make any comparison would require two cues from the two different cue-makers with identical specs, i.e., ferrules, cue tip and tip shape, cue weight, shaft diameter and taper, cue joint, wrap, identical butt cap material (not Delrin vs Ivory). etc.

Well, that's never going to happen simply because of availability and selection and in all likelihood, any two cues compared would have some differences that could tangibly affect the player's impression and overall evaluation of the cues in question. I mean comparing a 18.8 oz flat faced ivory joint with a 19.6 oz steel joint cue is hardly a fair comparison as would comparing a steel joint cue with ivory ferrules that weighed 19 ozs with another steel joint cue with phenolic ferrules which weighed 20.3 ozs. The same applies to comparing cues with different shaft specs.....one cue has a shaft with a 12.75mm pro taper length of 13-14 inches vs another cue's shaft that's 13.05mm with a taper length of 8-10 inches. What if one cue had a medium layered cue tip dime shaped and the other cue being compared had a hard solid leather tip that was nickel shaped......another comparison point that's not fair.

Perhaps you tried a cue that wasn't yours but you didn't care for it. Maybe the cue was too heavy, the ferrules were melamine instead of ivory, the cue you tried had a different tip than what you play with or was shaped differently than what you have on your cues' tips, or maybe the shaft diameter or taper was different etc.

Unless you compare apples to apples.....same cue weight , materials, and especially the type of cue joint, then any comparison you render is admittedly flawed and probably influenced by your subliminal preference for the look and style of a cue as much as any actual difference in playability or overall feel.

McDaniels vs Scruggs.....a tie.....and probably the same applies when comparing McDaniels or Scruggs cues with cues made by Verl Horn, Bill Stroud, Dennis Searing, Pete Tascarella, Bill Schick, Ernie Guiterrez, Paul Mottey, Richard Black, Ed Prewitt, Joel Hercek, etc. .........Alright.....maybe I stretched a bit by including full splice cue-makers in with everyone but I don't think so.

The underlying fact is when you own or even just play with a cue that you like its design/look and the cue has the right specs just the way you prefer a cue to have.......you're going to admire and appreciate that cue a whole lot more than a cue by any other cue-maker, even Burton Spain or Balabushka or Gus Szamboti. And frankly, I think these last two cue-makers are over-rated with undue praise versus the cue-makers I mentioned. After all, old Gus and George were just buying blanks and only finished the cues and so I'd much rather have a Hercek cue over the work Gus and George did.

And yes, I have played with a Gus Szamboti and also a George Balabushka cue........never owned either......and both cues were just too heavy, the cue butts too big and hit just like my early Schon does. All of three cues had the same feel and I was able to do a side by side comparison with my Runde Schon, albeit that there was a few years gap involved with playing with a Gus Szamboti cue and a George Balabushka cue. I mean I wasn't impressed in the slightest with any discernible difference but again, as I earlier pointed out, the cues all had slight differences which IMO prejudices the final subjective comparison and evaluation of the cues.

Anyway, That's my take on the subject and I'm betting my views will be in the minority expressed on the Forum about this topic......but to each their own.
i definitely do not agree with this. i had a 4 point 4 veneer scruggs but the 4 point 4 veneer scruggs that my friend has played better. the looks did not factor into it as i thought mine looked better (i like the woods and veneers used more than on my friend's cue) so if anything i would have expected mine to be better. as it were, mine was considerably worst.

i've had a lot of expensive cues and for me lambros hit better than all of them. the only one that i've found to play as well is the searing that i'm using. there is a discernible difference when i hit with the lambros and immediately decided to give up the cue i had played with for years and use the lambros instead. again, same as with the scruggs, the lambros i had looked worst than the playing cue i had at the time so looks had nothing to do with it either.


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Equipment or Operator Problem.....?
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Equipment or Operator Problem.....? - 03-30-2013, 06:03 PM

Danktree makes a point but not exactly in line with the topic. You can pick up any cue-maker........any cue-maker......and compare two of his cues.....made in the same year....same period......different decades.....doesn't matter.....and there is always opportunity for the two cues to hit differently. I won't bother listing the 7-8 major factors why this can and does happen.

The question was comparing cue-makers and what Danktree said about Scruggs cues can also be said about McDaniels cues, and certainly all the other cue-makers down through history. One would be foolish to think that all 1100-1200 of the cues Greorge Balushka made during his lifetime hit the same way.

I stand by what I wrote earlier......no difference in cue-makers.......I did not imply that cues made by the same cue-maker would not vary significantly, or even slightly, in playability or feel....whichever term you prefer. Cues made by any cue-maker can be similar, identical, or vary significantly dependent upon the components, cue specs, and of course, the type and age of the wood. Even ivory ferrules of different lengths will play differently, especially the acoustics.

Danktree is knowledgeable about this stuff and so his post surprises me a little. Anyway, he's entitled to his opinions as am I. Any others out there that have any thoughts on this topic?


"My Pool Cues"

*Bob Owen Custom- Level 8 (s/d 4-24-16) - Flat Ivory Joint
*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 6 (s/d 5-4-16) - Flat Ivory Joint

*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 8 (s/d 2-23-15) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Ed Prewitt Custom '05 - Level 8 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Bob Owen Custom - Level 8 (s/d 5-4-14) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Tim Scruggs Custom (9-6-95) Level 7 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Runde Schon '85 Custom "R" Series (1 of 1)
*Palmer (Original) - '72 (All Cocobolo Wood)

Last edited by Bavafongoul; 06-13-2013 at 11:58 AM.
  
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04-02-2013, 07:22 AM

there is only so much a cue maker can do.mother nature does the rest it is when the cuemaker and mother nature get on the same page is when those special cues are built .coring and other steps have made cues play closer to the same but the great ones mother nature still plays a big part in. it's not us giant egoed cuemakers.that is why we have alot of real good cues but very few great ones doug moore
  
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Opinions are like.......
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Opinions are like....... - 04-17-2013, 07:06 AM

Az family these are two completely different cues. The Scruggs in my opinion is a true custom cue. They have sharp points, bills cues are cnc and more like production cues. That may be why they are said to have a more consistent hit but I do not agree. I will probably catch a lot of flack for this post. A friend of mine was a dealer of bills for a while. I owned and played with several from sneakies to high end cues. In my opinion the Scruggs played better, no doubt though there has never been anyone in the business that did better inlay work than bills shop. Also Tim was much easier to deal with!
  
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Nttz on the ground - 03-14-2014, 07:03 AM

Bill McDanials learned Cue construction from Tim Scruggs and Bob Frey. Bill being the better player thought if he used the plastic in his pilot it would not wear down like wood might. Tim liked the feel of and play of wood. Bill thought his playability was improved with the plastic. Schon Cues likewise.
And that is the difference. That and the thing about CNC work.
Nick
  
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03-14-2014, 11:24 AM

The ironic thing about this question is that many Scruggs cues made a pass through Bill McDaniel's shop while they were being built. Bill was a partner in Scruggs Cues. Had been for many years from their early days.
  
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03-14-2014, 03:05 PM

I was always told mcdaniels made the first Black Boar cues, never knew he made Scruggs too.
  
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03-14-2014, 03:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilbertfan81 View Post
Az family these are two completely different cues. The Scruggs in my opinion is a true custom cue. They have sharp points, bills cues are cnc and more like production cues. That may be why they are said to have a more consistent hit but I do not agree. I will probably catch a lot of flack for this post. A friend of mine was a dealer of bills for a while. I owned and played with several from sneakies to high end cues. In my opinion the Scruggs played better, no doubt though there has never been anyone in the business that did better inlay work than bills shop. Also Tim was much easier to deal with!
both men made full splice, short splice and cnc pointed forearms, both men improved on what they and seen before and both men paved the way for newer makers to start with a lot of key elements figured out already. I like TS better though


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03-14-2014, 08:27 PM

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Originally Posted by spktur View Post
The ironic thing about this question is that many Scruggs cues made a pass through Bill McDaniel's shop while they were being built. Bill was a partner in Scruggs Cues. Had been for many years from their early days.
Partners yes, many Scruggs cues going through Bills shop, not so much.

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I was always told mcdaniels made the first Black Boar cues, never knew he made Scruggs too.
The first Black Boars were made as a collaboration between Tim, and Mike @ Scruggs and Bill's shop with Tony's group involved in finish work. Bill did not make Scruggs cues.

http://www.blackboarcustomcues.com/b...?CTID=213&IID=


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03-15-2014, 09:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_in_MD View Post
Partners yes, many Scruggs cues going through Bills shop, not so much.



The first Black Boars were made as a collaboration between Tim, and Mike @ Scruggs and Bill's shop with Tony's group involved in finish work. Bill did not make Scruggs cues.

http://www.blackboarcustomcues.com/b...?CTID=213&IID=
I picked out the wrap on this one while it was under construction at Bill's shop along with 5 others. This was in '96. I also saw many others pass through during the 20-25 years I was visiting the shop every month or so.
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