This is interesting.

P

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One Pocket John said:
In bold.

The inside right and outside left of the hand are pressure points only to feel in your grip hand. They are not for applying more spin to the cue ball. That would lead to Back Hand English BHE which is a different topic all together.
At least you gave it a shot. :)

Thanks

John
Click to expand...

I'll read and watch everything you listed and try anything new or revert back to old ideas or a combination of things because I'm suspecting different techniques are required for certain shots and a one grip fits all won't work for me but I don't think anyone is saying that if im not mistaken.

This may not be as easy as I think even though I'm not dealing with mysteries any more and just simple trial and error.

I also have an idea about cue butts that imo is mandatory but I don't want to reveal it exactly but grip location back middle or forward for certain shots has to be paramount if one thinks about it and I don't hear much emphasis on that from my decades in the game.

Thanks John. Back to work.
 
Ratta

Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
Silver Member
The grip is one of the most important and most critical parts in the terminology of a stroke.
There are some specialists who say "one grip for everything"- that s complete bullshit. and quite wrong.

Some persons have for example an incredible timing- and release their cue on shots where high acceleration is needed with kind of *snap* with their wrist.
Is this something you could teach someone? sure not.
You cannot copy someones stroke- at the beginning of course nice thing to try out sth for starters in this sport (like in any sport).

Let s just pick Shane, Django or Keith McCready.

does someone would try to break down their "stroke"? Sure just if you would want to destroy their complete stroke.

Here is absolutley not "one rule that always is right"- - but of course right at the beginning many useful things you can explain and teach someone :)

Grip: very complicated-- it s tough to coordinate 32 muscles (just forearm and hand) to work repeatable every time :) you can showup things, which can minimize some errors-

Do not want to start a rocket science report here. But if someone says about the grip, that there would be once right and correct solution......he would have found the holy grail.
 
P

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ratta said:
The grip is one of the most important and most critical parts in the terminology of a stroke.
There are some specialists who say "one grip for everything"- that s complete bullshit. and quite wrong.

Some persons have for example an incredible timing- and release their cue on shots where high acceleration is needed with kind of *snap* with their wrist.
Is this something you could teach someone? sure not.
You cannot copy someones stroke- at the beginning of course nice thing to try out sth for starters in this sport (like in any sport).

Let s just pick Shane, Django or Keith McCready.

does someone would try to break down their "stroke"? Sure just if you would want to destroy their complete stroke.

Here is absolutley not "one rule that always is right"- - but of course right at the beginning many useful things you can explain and teach someone :)

Grip: very complicated-- it s tough to coordinate 32 muscles (just forearm and hand) to work repeatable every time :) you can showup things, which can minimize some errors-

Do not want to start a rocket science report here. But if someone says about the grip, that there would be once right and correct solution......he would have found the holy grail.
Click to expand...

I like it all this including yours fkd up english:)

My draw sucks. Yes, I can draw the ball no problem and actually "aim" inside of two diamonds. Three diamonds and I got to execute it differently and I wouldn't bet big on a very high success rate.

4 diamonds and fo geh about it pizzano. However, I do practice alot on worn simonis and a worn out snooker table and you litterally have to pound the ball.

Get me on that new blue simonis that you see alot of official matches on and I will admit even after 4 diamonds, I shoot a stop shot and it draws back 6 inches. So maybe my draw is not weak?: analyze..........COMPLETE:

FACT: WRONG

FACT: Ernesto Domingez came over to the same table and said just jack up more, which to me felt like I was shooting a jump shot and I was very inaccurate because my stroke has a combination of problems with yaw and sqweezing the grip etc....but Ernesto stepped up and did it over and over and I could see and damn near hear that cb whizzing with perfect vertical draw.....NO PROBLEM.

Ernesto has all kinds of grip things with his fingers and he's really in control of it and he has the best bridging techniques I ever seen.

Stroke like shane........fo geh about it. Nobody has a stroke like that with that kind of physics it can produce.

I've always said that one day I will be known for a strong draw. I figured it will just come. Just one simple thing I have to discover and then I'll be feeling kinda sorry for pool itself because hee hee its so easy......shhhhhh don't tell anyone Paul or else everyone will discover pool is not a hard game.

FACT:

It hasn't come.

FACT: Me feeling veh'wee saw'ree for myself.

FACT: 😭😭😭 :( :(

FACT: I KAINT DO IT!! I KAINT GIT THE BOTTOM LAND!!!!

Maybe I'll get struck by lightning while on my way to shoot the best draw'er with this here rifle gun from Daniel Boon.......gimee that ol' time draw stroke, gimee that ol'time draw stroke, it's good enough for me.

Uhhh that's all from the movie called Sergeant York. He ended up getting that bottom land.
 
P

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For starters, I watched myself on film last night and I believe I need to shorten my bridge and set myself more forward on a draw shot. It looks like I'm set up too far back as if I'm going to fall backwards if that makes sense.

No, I'm not anywhere near falling backwards, it's just a description but it definitely appears to be a disadvantaged position.

Oh and not to forget, my head comes up very nicely with every shot, even a short shot with a ob in the jaws......eeeeeee I might miss! Jump your whole body too Paul to help make the ball!

Well done! Gold star!........areshole.
 
BeiberLvr

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SpiderWebComm said:

Loose isn't what CJ, some other instructors, or various pro players say to use. They state FIRM. Firm isn't a death grip but it's not loose either.
Click to expand...

If Firm isn't a death grip, then it falls in line with what I said about how loose doesn't matter as long as it's somewhere in between the cue flying out of your hands and a death grip.


IOW - Firm (as you've described) can also be referred to as "less loose"

IOW [part deux] - I agree with you.
 
BeiberLvr

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SpiderWebComm said:
Not according to Buddy Hall when applying Tuck or Roll. The wrist is turned one way or the other in the middle of the forward stroke to alter the cue orientation. Could it be done straight? Sure. But he feels it's better not to.

I think the one solid statement about anything in pool is there are no solid statements written in stone.
Click to expand...

I'd need to see some rock solid evidence showing that it's optimal before I would even begin to consider shooting that way.

Hint: Telling me to watch videos of Buddy playing isn't "rock solid evidence" :p
 
P

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BeiberLvr said:
I'd need to see some rock solid evidence showing that it's optimal before I would even begin to consider shooting that way.

Hint: Telling me to watch videos of Buddy playing isn't "rock solid evidence" :p
Click to expand...

I think the proof is the better or best, as a majority, had the straighter stroke. Not a straight redirect type stroke, but a straight stroke truly down the line.

Somebody here mentioned Ralf Souquet and I agree with that person just from memory. I haven't gone back to look at his mechanics but I will. But I always noted there was something about his entire delivery that looked like he couldn't miss.

I discovered some things today that brought me around to full circle where, alignment is the system.

I've found that when I can line up perfectly with a dead hanging stroke and everything down the line, I virtually can't miss or severely threaten the pocket and I'm talking about on a snooker table. On a 9', your miss hits can be masked even though it goes in the hole.

I got more to say and some probable questions but I got to get back to the tables.
 
SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
BeiberLvr said:
I'd need to see some rock solid evidence showing that it's optimal before I would even begin to consider shooting that way.

Hint: Telling me to watch videos of Buddy playing isn't "rock solid evidence" :p
Click to expand...

You can see it if you're able to score a copy of his DVD called the "Clock System" where he illustrates it. But why mess with perfection if you already have it?
 
Last edited:
SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
One Pocket John said:
The Clock System starts at 51:42 and continues at 1:05

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSAtnVPdSIo

John
Click to expand...

Good find on youtube. And starting a little past 1:28 he explains tuck and roll. At a latter point he states that getting English from a straight stroke is not the way to go because it gets too much deflection. You need to either tuck or roll depending on which direction you want the CB to go.

But what does Buddy Hall know over AZer champs? :rotflmao:
 
One Pocket John

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SpiderWebComm said:
Good find on youtube. And starting a little past 1:28 he explains tuck and roll
Click to expand...
SpiderWebComm said:
. At a latter point he states that getting English from a straight stroke is not the way to go because it gets too much deflection. You need to either tuck or roll depending on which direction you want the CB to go.

But what does Buddy Hall know over AZer champs? :rotflmao:
Click to expand...

Thanks Dave. I'll go to 1:28 now.

Whoa! Just spent about 15 min with it. Huh! definitely cuts way down on the cue stick speed.
This is going to take some practice to get the feel in my grip hand.

John
 
Last edited:
SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
One Pocket John said:


Thanks Dave. I'll go to 1:28 now.

Whoa! Just spent about 15 min with it. Huh! definitely cuts way down on the cue stick speed.
This is going to take some practice to get the feel in my grip hand.

John
Click to expand...


It's basically backhand English without a swipe of the hand and upper arm going either away from the body or toward it. It's all controlled with the hand and wrist.

Once you get the hang of it, you'll still have the same cue stick speed and be able to hit hard if you want.

As an addition to above, the stroke distance or speed doesn't change at all from what you normally do. The stroke remains the same. You aren't "cork screwing" the CB either. All that you're doing is changing the cue orientation to either the right or left of center for English during the stroke itself. Again, it's done with the wrist in either a convex or concave position while stroking.

Put the CB on the table with a center ball setup and no intention of actually striking it. Now take your back stroke. As soon as you start forward either tuck or roll but stop just short of hitting the CB. Observe where the tip of your cue is compared to it's original center ball position. It should be either right or left depending on which direction you turned the wrist.
 
Last edited:
BC21

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Of course, these videos (where Buddy talks about deflection minimizing the english resulting from a straight stroke) are from back in the late 1980's or very early 1990's, prior to LD shafts. I had the VHS tapes way back then. Good stuff.
 
One Pocket John

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SpiderWebComm said:
It's basically backhand English without a swipe of the hand and upper arm going either away from the body or toward it. It's all controlled with the hand and wrist.

Once you get the hang of it, you'll still have the same cue stick speed and be able to hit hard if you want.
Click to expand...

Rep sent.

In bold........thanks. Since I'm using the pressure points as shown in my original post twisting the wrist one direction or the other should not be a really big challenge.

Earl the Pearl uses it also.

Thanks :)

John
 
Last edited:
SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
BC21 said:
Of course, these videos (where Buddy talks about deflection minimizing the english resulting from a straight stroke) are from back in the late 1980's or very early 1990's, prior to LD shafts. I had the VHS tapes way back then. Good stuff.
Click to expand...

Not everyone uses an LD shaft. Personally, I've never found one I liked better than the old faithful ones.

You can still use tuck and roll with LD shafts.
 
SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
One Pocket John said:
Rep sent.

In bold........thanks. Since I'm using the pressure points as shown in my original post twisting the wrist one direction or the other should not be a really big challenge.

Earl the Pearl uses it also.

Thanks :)

John
Click to expand...

Thanks John. See EDIT addition to my post above.
 
One Pocket John

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SpiderWebComm said:
Thanks John. See EDIT addition to my post above.
Click to expand...

I shouldn't have used the word twist. Bending the wrist in or out is probably the better description of what I'm working with as I type this.

What I'm finding is, I can aim most shots (almost straight in) using the vertical axis of the cue ball and then use tuck and roll as needed.

I used your suggestion with the cue ball and sure enough the cue ends up on either the right or left (about 1 tip +/-) depending on which way you bend your wrist.

This is some interesting stuff. :)

John
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top