What's the best safe from here?

I agree with all the back-scratchers that racking is the main problem. Of course, at e.g. the European Championships, the balls are tapped - there is no way the corner ball would leak out accidentally. Personally, I'm against tapping the balls in Straight Pool as this leaves the bad etiquette (but tempting) choice of making the dead combo into the corner… Needless to say, given the make-percentage, the young guns tend to not think twice - it's all about running balls and winning. But among the older players, there are ones who will not shoot consider it on principle.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
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„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

sjm said:

First of all, your opponent won't be frozen. If you try to freeze them, you'll scratch some of the time and the response will , so a top player will hit this just slightly hard enough to come a bit off the rail. Second, I do not agree that there is any problem from under the rack, but if, by some chance, nothing easy is available to me from undeneath, I'll take a scratch into the back of the rack which will loosen a couple of balls but will leave nothing. If you then knock me back below the rack, I'll have lots of options for my next safety. This, by the way, is how Irving Crane used to play from below a frozen or nearly frozen rack. Practice the escape from below. Though it will sometimes cost you one point, it's an incredibly simple escape to execute.

Trust me on this one, your approach will never win the safety battle against a tactically strong opponent. If will merely start a safety battle, one which you may ultimately win, but you are not ahead in the safety battle with your prescribed shot against a top player.

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I think the only difference between my course of action and yours is the starting order of the safety battle. I think you're assuming perfect racks and clean balls all the time, which don't always happen. Whether or not you start from the "Brunswick" or from kissing the rack, a safety battle will ensue. The main difference, for me, is eliminating the pop-out chance from the gate.

You're correct--- you're not always frozen. But low english is not available and that's huge from there.

The KEY thing you mentioned above is that it won't work against a TOP PLAYER. Statistically, you're correct. If you're not a top player and/or someone who plays within his ability very well, you're going to break and give up a ton of balls. If you're playing a TOP-PLAYER, you going to lose anyways (unless you are a top player yourself) so it's a moot point.

Therefore, I guess the differences in our philosophies come down to --- how comfy are you shooting cut shots up table from the "Brunswick?" If that's your bread and butter and make them all the time, I guess the next game I'm sticking you to the rack More often than not, people play outside of their ability and sell out countless games.

SpiderWebComm said:

I think the only difference between my course of action and yours is the starting order of the safety battle. I think you're assuming perfect racks and clean balls all the time, which don't always happen. Whether or not you start from the "Brunswick" or from kissing the rack, a safety battle will ensue. The main difference, for me, is eliminating the pop-out chance from the gate.

You're correct--- you're not always frozen. But low english is not available and that's huge from there.

The KEY thing you mentioned above is that it won't work against a TOP PLAYER. Statistically, you're correct. If you're not a top player and/or someone who plays within his ability very well, you're going to break and give up a ton of balls. If you're playing a TOP-PLAYER, you going to lose anyways (unless you are a top player yourself) so it's a moot point.

Therefore, I guess the differences in our philosophies come down to --- how comfy are you shooting cut shots up table from the "Brunswick?" If that's your bread and butter and make them all the time, I guess the next game I'm sticking you to the rack More often than not, people play outside of their ability and sell out countless games.

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Seems we'll have to agree to disagree here. In my experience, giving up the second ball safety from behind will often backfire against a top defensive techincian. The reason is that your onlyresponse will be to graze the back of the rack and, if your not careful, you'll offer opponents a chance to create a second threat. If the play develops that way, you'll be way behind in the safety battle.

To sum, I feel that while your shot will never lose the safety battle on the first inning, an undesirable sequence might develop from it. A backscratch, although it costs you a point, will not allow opponent to create the first threat ball, and you'll be on even footing in the safety battle that ensues.

No doubt, this is tactical nuance, but for those who want to learn how to beat world class players to the shot, take note that, on average, it's best if you are the one creating the threat balls rather than your opponent.

That said, you've got your experience and I've got mine, and I'm glad we've had a civil debate in which we've posted with mutual respect. It's obvious that you've had good results with your approach, and thanks for your excellent input to this thread.

I think there is much wisdom in your observation that the skill level of your opponent must be accounted for in your choice here.