Racking Consistency at DCC

Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The question came up recently about how consistently people are racking the balls at the last DCC straight pool challenge. Given that this event is becoming so popular, thanks to Dennis and Bill and others, with prize money going up, maybe two tables next year, and so on, I thought it would be an interesting exercise to look at the "rack your own" practice in this event.

As some of you may know, I like to do video analysis of player strokes (mostly my own) and table layouts with the new smart phone software available nowadays. I figure if you can analyze a situation in a way that has never been done before, it can yield interesting results. If anybody has an idea of something pool related that might be interesting to study, let me know!

Before presenting the videos I put together below, let me give you the bottom line as I see it: Everybody is capable of racking extremely precisely. There are no real issues here. One player, John Schmidt, is kind of all over the place, however, in the last DCC. John racks like he's got a train to catch. My recommendation is that he just slow down a tad. There seemed to be some difficulty with all the players in getting the balls to stay frozen when removing the rack. Most of the players would hold the rack still while pushing the bottom row of balls forward with their thumbs until they were frozen together. John tended to reposition the entire rack until he found a sweet spot where they stayed frozen. You could argue that when the break ball was close to the rack, the rack position was placed lower or higher to get away from the break ball a little. It almost looks like he is trying not to bump into the break ball with the rack. Maybe just slow down a little.

Just to be clear, I don't think there is anything nefarious going on with John. Just slow down the racking a little!!

With that said, here are the videos:

I've used Hohmann as a baseline since his racking is like a machine. (It did turn out that other Euro players also rack like machines). I originally intended to present this without identifying players, but after completing it, I don't see any sensitive issues that might require anonymity.


https://youtu.be/CdnUaD8z59Y

Other examples of consistent racking:

https://youtu.be/04dzqQKvDt4
https://youtu.be/SBt5td3WFYY
https://youtu.be/tiknT7tAXZ8

Since Lou inspired my little study (my wife sees what I'm spending my time on and just shakes her head :smile:) here's Lou's 112:

https://youtu.be/bE7qjygeKpM

Here's John at DCC:

https://youtu.be/ZmzNdipv4JE

another from John some years ago:

https://youtu.be/9Kp_apLixv8

Someone racking for Schmidt, just for good measure:

https://youtu.be/qKrJ4GhPAQA
 
J

john coloccia

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can't find the specific rule right now, but I seem to recall you're allowed the radius of a dime to find a happy position for the rack. :)

But you're right. The European players seem to be more methodical. Mika and Thorsten are especially very no nonsense about it.
 
J

john coloccia

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You know, it's almost like racking should be a lesson just by itself. Lots of people absolutely suck at. Myself, I give tight racks but it might take me a few tries if they don't all just sit well right off the bat. Then there are guys that seem to just do it, and everything works like magic the first time. There must be some techniques that help you get tight racks consistently and quickly. I wish I knew what they were.
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Interesting.

Also of note, the camera can shift things. For a lot of home videos, that don't have a focus lock, the objects visible in the frame can shift a ball width as the camera re-focusus. I don't expect that much movement with the pro streamers, but its something to be aware of.
 
Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
Interesting.

Also of note, the camera can shift things. For a lot of home videos, that don't have a focus lock, the objects visible in the frame can shift a ball width as the camera re-focusus. I don't expect that much movement with the pro streamers, but its something to be aware of.
Click to expand...

I was careful to watch for that. On one of the older videos I watched the table frame as I clicked through the images. There were one or two where the frame could be seen to move an incredibly small amount. Otherwise, all the movement you see in these videos is real.

Thanks for the comment.
 
lfigueroa

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dan White said:
The question came up recently about how consistently people are racking the balls at the last DCC straight pool challenge. Given that this event is becoming so popular, thanks to Dennis and Bill and others, with prize money going up, maybe two tables next year, and so on, I thought it would be an interesting exercise to look at the "rack your own" practice in this event.

As some of you may know, I like to do video analysis of player strokes (mostly my own) and table layouts with the new smart phone software available nowadays. I figure if you can analyze a situation in a way that has never been done before, it can yield interesting results. If anybody has an idea of something pool related that might be interesting to study, let me know!

Before presenting the videos I put together below, let me give you the bottom line as I see it: Everybody is capable of racking extremely precisely. There are no real issues here. One player, John Schmidt, is kind of all over the place, however, in the last DCC. John racks like he's got a train to catch. My recommendation is that he just slow down a tad. There seemed to be some difficulty with all the players in getting the balls to stay frozen when removing the rack. Most of the players would hold the rack still while pushing the bottom row of balls forward with their thumbs until they were frozen together. John tended to reposition the entire rack until he found a sweet spot where they stayed frozen. You could argue that when the break ball was close to the rack, the rack position was placed lower or higher to get away from the break ball a little. It almost looks like he is trying not to bump into the break ball with the rack. Maybe just slow down a little.

Just to be clear, I don't think there is anything nefarious going on with John. Just slow down the racking a little!!

With that said, here are the videos:

I've used Hohmann as a baseline since his racking is like a machine. (It did turn out that other Euro players also rack like machines). I originally intended to present this without identifying players, but after completing it, I don't see any sensitive issues that might require anonymity.


https://youtu.be/CdnUaD8z59Y

Other examples of consistent racking:

https://youtu.be/04dzqQKvDt4
https://youtu.be/SBt5td3WFYY
https://youtu.be/tiknT7tAXZ8

Since Lou inspired my little study (my wife sees what I'm spending my time on and just shakes her head :smile:) here's Lou's 112:

https://youtu.be/bE7qjygeKpM

Here's John at DCC:

https://youtu.be/ZmzNdipv4JE

another from John some years ago:

https://youtu.be/9Kp_apLixv8

Someone racking for Schmidt, just for good measure:

https://youtu.be/qKrJ4GhPAQA
Click to expand...


Dan, I think that's a pretty remarkable analysis. And it is some vindication that at least one other fan of the game cares about these kinds of fine points, which should be of concern to any true aficionado.

I have to believe that pool players in general know exactly what they're doing with the rack: 9ball guys setting/arguing over microscopic gaps and slug racks; 1pocket guys twisting the rack and insisting on "rack your own"; and 14.1 guys racking high or low. Precise racking is integral to being a pool player -- to know how to rack and the difference between a good rack and a bad one. And, as has often been said, it is a game of fractions of an inch. At the pro level they should be racking consistently, like Hohmann... unless it is to gain an advantage.

BTW, one other aspect of Hohmann's run is not only the incredible consistency of his break ball position, as you noted, but also *the angle* and CB distance from the break ball he lays down with stunning consistency.

I would hope that those responsible for 14.1 competitions would, in the future, consider some kind of remedy and/or oversight. Simply utilizing an extra CB for a head ball would help whatever player has a problem racking.

Lou Figueroa
 
Last edited:
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the best solution, is to draw a line around all 3 sides of the rack with a fine point magic marker.

I used to gamble one hole with a guy who tilted the rack so bad. I'd argue with him every rack and he played dumb like he couldn't see it. It would be tilted 1/4" at least. A line around the entire rack would solve that.

Also of note, if you are going to go through the trouble of drawing lines, the initial placement of the rack should be precisely placed with a gig or ruler.
 
Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
I think the best solution, is to draw a line around all 3 sides of the rack with a fine point magic marker.

I used to gamble one hole with a guy who tilted the rack so bad. I'd argue with him every rack and he played dumb like he couldn't see it. It would be tilted 1/4" at least. A line around the entire rack would solve that.

Also of note, if you are going to go through the trouble of drawing lines, the initial placement of the rack should be precisely placed with a gig or ruler.
Click to expand...

The rack outline is drawn for any straight pool competition. It just doesn't often show up on video.
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dan White said:
The rack outline is drawn for any straight pool competition. It just doesn't often show up on video.
Click to expand...

So it was drawn for this 14-1 challenge at DCC? If so, why were the racks so off? Were the balls having trouble with the spot sticker?
 
Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
So it was drawn for this 14-1 challenge at DCC? If so, why were the racks so off? Were the balls having trouble with the spot sticker?
Click to expand...

Lines are always drawn for straight pool, unless I guess under some unusual circumstance. The racks were perfect for the majority of players. It just looks like John was being sloppy. The foot spot marker or sticker isn't a factor as the head ball is not in the rack for straight pool.

Thanks,
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dan White said:
Lines are always drawn for straight pool, unless I guess under some unusual circumstance. The racks were perfect for the majority of players. It just looks like John was being sloppy. The foot spot marker or sticker isn't a factor as the head ball is not in the rack for straight pool.

Thanks,
Click to expand...

Ha, sorry, brain fart re missing apex ball:)
 
S

Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
john coloccia said:
I can't find the specific rule right now, but I seem to recall you're allowed the radius of a dime to find a happy position for the rack. :)
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that this rule (I'm presuming that it exists) was at least in part inspired by the fact that the cloth gets indented by consistently (same exact location) racked balls after a period of time, and depending on how imperfectly (not tightly) the consistently racked balls have been racked over time, the resultant dimples can prevent a tight rack if the balls are sitting in them. If the dimples are occupying the basic spots where the balls should be located if the rack is to be properly positioned (head ball right on the middle of the foot spot, back row of balls parallel to the foot rail), then, in order to prevent the balls from settling into the dimples, one must shift the rack far enough off "center" (by going either forwards, backwards, or to one side) to avoid the dimples.

Which raises this question, for a Dan White scientific study (should be be so inclined): is there a "forward" or "backward" or "to the side" rack location (in all cases with the back row of balls parallel to the foot rail) that is advantageous in any sense? The most ready-to-mind sense of a break shot outcome that might be advantageous is balls in the rack ending up in pockets. l'm not sure that it is an advantage. It might be a disadvantag to have multiple balls drop on the break shot; sometimes I find that this leaves me with fewer (or no) good options.

By the way, not to hijack Dan's thread, but what is the highest number of balls that you've made, or seen made, on a break shot? I've had four go in (break ball plus three). Sometimes, when just practicing by running balls, I've had multiple racks in a row where two balls end up in a pocket, making me wonder how common that is, and, if not common, whether the table man who set up my table put the foot spot in an improper (but favorable in terms of being conducive to multiple balls dropping on standard break shots) location. Sometimes it seems as if the balls are just pouring in!
 
Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Seth C. said:
Which raises this question, for a Dan White scientific study (should be be so inclined): is there a "forward" or "backward" or "to the side" rack location (in all cases with the back row of balls parallel to the foot rail) that is advantageous in any sense? The most ready-to-mind sense of a break shot outcome that might be advantageous is balls in the rack ending up in pockets. l'm not sure that it is an advantage. It might be a disadvantag to have multiple balls drop on the break shot; sometimes I find that this leaves me with fewer (or no) good options.
Click to expand...

I don't know in a perfect rack where all balls are touching each other if the rack position allows for more balls pocketed, or some other advantage. I would tend to doubt it. The danger in racking somewhat carelessly is that you open yourself up to question. Are you racking a little low when the break ball is low in order to get a better hit on the pack? Are you racking a little high for a behind the rack break in order to change the angle or contact point on the bottom of the rack? Personally I don't think these things are being done intentionally, but why not just rack the same every time and remove any question?

If I'm in the money in this tournament, I want everybody racking the same. Even if there is no bad intent, moving the rack around a little could provide a small advantage, which is sometimes all these world class players need in order to get ahead (whether intentional or not).
 
lfigueroa

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dan White said:
I don't know in a perfect rack where all balls are touching each other if the rack position allows for more balls pocketed, or some other advantage. I would tend to doubt it. The danger in racking somewhat carelessly is that you open yourself up to question. Are you racking a little low when the break ball is low in order to get a better hit on the pack? Are you racking a little high for a behind the rack break in order to change the angle or contact point on the bottom of the rack? Personally I don't think these things are being done intentionally, but why not just rack the same every time and remove any question?

If I'm in the money in this tournament, I want everybody racking the same. Even if there is no bad intent, moving the rack around a little could provide a small advantage, which is sometimes all these world class players need in order to get ahead (whether intentional or not).
Click to expand...


I think that a case could be make that slight variations in rack position -- even very small ones -- could assist a player. IF it was being done with purpose.

Lou Figueroa
 
M

Miller

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
obviously, thorsten needs to rack for everyone at next years dcc challenge....:wink::grin:

amazing analysis, mr. white. thank you.

dustin miller
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top