What to do??

terhje · May 7, 2012

Hey, I had a funny moment in this match.

Im gambling against Mats Schjetne, the score is 84-114 to him.(he just ran a 107 on me in the last match) I was on 1 foul so he took an intentional foul tapping the cueball. The cueball is frozen to both the 9 and the 7. The 7 lines up an inch left of the diamond below the side pocket and the 9 lines up straight into the pocket but the 4 is blocking it(about a half ball hit on the 4). What would you do?

stevekur1 · May 7, 2012

take an intensional back on him. touch the CB exactly where the red dot is on the CB in the picture. hitting downward like you were shooting a huge masse. but barely touch it so you dont free up the cb too much.

-Steve

14-1StraightMan · May 7, 2012

Bank It

I can see no use in taking another foul. I would attempt to throw the 7 ball banking it up table to the lower top corner.

Bob Jewett · May 7, 2012

How about taking a second foul to make a safe possible but not leave a shot. If no safe is available after that, take a third foul. If your opponent routinely runs hundreds, a rack is not much of a penalty, especially if it gets him on two fouls.

Bob Jewett · May 7, 2012

14-1StraightMan said:
I can see no use in taking another foul. I would attempt to throw the 7 ball banking it up table to the lower top corner.

For a circus shot, I'd rather play the cue ball through the 7 one cushion to kick the 6 in. Or play the trick shot through the 9 to kiss the 9 just after it hits the 4 to knock it straight ahead.

pt109 · May 7, 2012

Bob Jewett said:
How about taking a second foul to make a safe possible but not leave a shot. If no safe is available after that, take a third foul. If your opponent routinely runs hundreds, a rack is not much of a penalty, especially if it gets him on two fouls.

That was my first thought...I'll take a 3-foul.
..unless my opponent wants to shoot a white flag.

terhje · May 7, 2012

I made the 9 in the corner pocket as Jewett described. of the 4, cueball hits the 9 in the back and it went straight. Mats: -wtf? was it a foul? lol.

14-1StraightMan · May 7, 2012

Bob Jewett said:
For a circus shot, I'd rather play the cue ball through the 7 one cushion to kick the 6 in. Or play the trick shot through the 9 to kiss the 9 just after it hits the 4 to knock it straight ahead.

Yes, all the shots that are stated seem to be circus shots. There is no right answer. If it was me, I would of stuck with banking the 7 ball. One must play the shot/safety that they feel most comfortable with.

Bob Jewett · May 7, 2012

terhje said:
I made the 9 in the corner pocket as Jewett described. of the 4, cueball hits the 9 in the back and it went straight. Mats: -wtf? was it a foul? lol.

Well, was the cue ball declared frozen to the 9? But more importantly, did you win the game?

terhje · May 8, 2012

Bob Jewett said:
Well, was the cue ball declared frozen to the 9? But more importantly, did you win the game?

It was declared frozen yes. Well i made the shot and got a open table. i ran 32 balls and messed up on a secondary breakshot...loosing 116-125. No happy ending this time.

sjm · May 10, 2012

Nice shot, but a ridiculous choice by my standards. All signs point to taking three here, but if you would rather not, take a foul and concede the bank of the ten in the side. Winning straight pool is not about playing what Bob Jewett rightly terms "circus shots."

dmgwalsh · May 11, 2012

If you wanted to try a safe, how about the cue ball rubbing off the nine and right english 4 rails up into the kitchen for a safe?

mosconiac · May 11, 2012

I would have taken 3 & started over with a full rack.

14-1StraightMan · May 11, 2012

dmgwalsh said:
If you wanted to try a safe, how about the cue ball rubbing off the nine and right english 4 rails up into the kitchen for a safe?

Dennis, I never seen that shot looking at the diagram but now that you pointed it out, it is very clear. I think that is a great safe & the correct one to take. It is the best shot of all listed & by no means is it a circus shot. Thanks for pointing it out.

dmgwalsh · May 13, 2012

14-1StraightMan said:
Dennis, I never seen that shot looking at the diagram but now that you pointed it out, it is very clear. I think that is a great safe & the correct one to take. It is the best shot of all listed & by no means is it a circus shot. Thanks for pointing it out.

Thanks, Mike. It depends how clean you can come off the nine and turn the corner. Once you get up in the kitchen, you leave him a pretty tough shot.

sjm · May 14, 2012

dmgwalsh said:
If you wanted to try a safe, how about the cue ball rubbing off the nine and right english 4 rails up into the kitchen for a safe?

Doesn't look available, but wouldn't play it anyway. With the two ball below the first diamond, it's unlikely you'll leave less than an easy bank, and you'll often leave a makeable two in the corner. The kitchen is not safe here. This safety is suicide against a strong player.

Ratta · May 14, 2012

Agree here with sjm,

this situation is really a tough one-and for sure nothing for or out of the textbook. Terje in this case decided to try the tough combination-shot. IN this situation, as it is shown (and also described to me in chat with Terje), the percentage of a successful great safety was not really higher than trying the hard combo.

Next to that s also about your feeling right at the moment i would also choose the hard shot to pocket a ball. If the chances are equal i would always try to make the harder shot to pocket instead of trying a very low percentage safety shot.

dmgwalsh · May 14, 2012

sjm said:
Doesn't look available, but wouldn't play it anyway. With the two ball below the first diamond, it's unlikely you'll leave less than an easy bank, and you'll often leave a makeable two in the corner. The kitchen is not safe here. This safety is suicide against a strong player.

You may be right. That 2 bank almost looks as easy as the 10 ball bank that you conceded.

Just kidding, sort of. The 2 ball bank might end up being pretty easy.

How about nudge the 7 out just a little, staying on the 7 and close to or on the 1? If he leaves you there, you might be able to execute hitting the right side of the six and leaving the cue ball pinned to the bottom of the 8.

sjm · May 14, 2012

dmgwalsh said:
You may be right. That 2 bank almost looks as easy as the 10 ball bank that you conceded.

Just kidding, sort of. The 2 ball bank might end up being pretty easy.

How about nudge the 7 out just a little, staying on the 7 and close to or on the 1? If he leaves you there, you might be able to execute hitting the right side of the six and leaving the cue ball pinned to the bottom of the 8.

Point well taken, and this is where your opponent's level comes into play. I'd still rather concede bank the ten over playing four rails into the kitchen where
I'll probably leave something easier. Personally, I think your opponent will be cutting the two in nearly as often as having to bank it.

I don't like nudging the seven because, far too often, you'll turn the combo into a realistic shot that most intermediate level players can make.

You're in a serious trap here. Against a weak player, nudging the seven is fine. I don't like the four rail safe against any level of player. Still, against a weak player, I'm far more inclined to concede the bank on the ten because the safety might not leave a bank at all.

Against a good player, this position screams for taking a three foul and hoping for better in the next rack. That was my original analysis and I'm not changing my mind at this point.

dmgwalsh · May 14, 2012

sjm said:
Point well taken, and this is where your opponent's level comes into play. I'd still rather concede bank the ten over playing four rails into the kitchen where
I'll probably leave something easier. Personally, I think your opponent will be cutting the two in nearly as often as having to bank it.

I don't like nudging the seven because, far too often, you'll turn the combo into a realistic shot that most intermediate level players can make.

You're in a serious trap here. Against a weak player, nudging the seven is fine. I don't like the four rail safe against any level of player. Still, against a weak player, I'm far more inclined to concede the bank on the ten because the safety might not leave a bank at all.

Against a good player, this position screams for taking a three foul and hoping for better in the next rack. That was my original analysis and I'm not changing my mind at this point.

Stu: Thanks for the analysis. The thinking behind all the possibilities is much more interesting than the solutions themselves and at least helps give us the tools with which to evaluate our options.

Dennis

What to do??

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