Following blocking ball into pocket

Clusterbuster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I tried to post this earlier but it got lost somewhere in cyberspace. If I end up with a double post, forgive me. Anyway, last night I was in a situation where my object ball and the cue ball were in a straight line to a pocket which was blocked by an opponent ball sitting in the jaws of the pocket. This is not an unusual situation and I made it by hitting the cue ball with draw which produced follow on the object ball, causing it to follow the blocker into the pocket. No big deal. My question is how to handle this situation when the cue ball is at an angle to the object ball. Obviously, a large cut angle makes the shot impossible (I think) but is there a calculation or strategy that could help me shoot a slight cut and still have the object ball follow the blocker into the pocket? Is there an outer limit which makes the shot impossible? Particular english that could maybe be used? I'm guessing that, aside from angle, how deeply the blocker is sitting in the pocket is the next biggest variable but I'm not the expert. Any help or suggestions are appreciated.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... My question is how to handle this situation when the cue ball is at an angle to the object ball. Obviously, a large cut angle makes the shot impossible (I think) but is there a calculation or strategy that could help me shoot a slight cut and still have the object ball follow the blocker into the pocket? ...
The object ball will acquire follow from moving across the cloth. On most draw shots, that follow will be much more than the follow you transfer from the cue ball. You need to choose a speed such that the object ball starts rolling smoothly on the cloth just as it gets to the blocker. I think the hard part of the shot is landing full on the blocker.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think it's doable, depending on the cut angle, but as Bob wrote, the hard part is getting the object ball to land full on the blocker.

I think it's a perception issue, because often when there's an angle involved, the object ball may enter the pocket hitting the facing first. In order to avoid that, try perceiving a slight over-cut to hold the line, compared to how you would normally shoot the shot if the blocker wasn't there.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
I just played a few games in the platform last night with the foreman, that shot actually came up.

I had roughly a 45 degree cut, and pocketed my ball behind the opponents.

the key is hitting the ball fully square to the one covering as Fran and bob mentioned.

Take time to be precise and accurate, doesn’t play well with sloppiness


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JC

Coos Cues
I was once playing a game of 8 ball and called a stripe-solid-stripe combination on a hangar ball and all three balls went straight into the pocket. They were spaced about 3 inches apart from one another. I have no idea what I did or how I did it nor have I ever seen it happen before or since.

One of those moments that leaves you wondering what exactly just happened.

JC
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
I was once playing a game of 8 ball and called a stripe-solid-stripe combination on a hangar ball and all three balls went straight into the pocket. They were spaced about 3 inches apart from one another. I have no idea what I did or how I did it nor have I ever seen it happen before or since.



One of those moments that leaves you wondering what exactly just happened.



JC



I've seen that in trick shots before never in a game yet....how were conditions?


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carguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think it's doable, depending on the cut angle, but as Bob wrote, the hard part is getting the object ball to land full on the blocker.

I think it's a perception issue, because often when there's an angle involved, the object ball may enter the pocket hitting the facing first. In order to avoid that, try perceiving a slight over-cut to hold the line, compared to how you would normally shoot the shot if the blocker wasn't there.

Cool. This works SO well.

Robin Snyder < still learning
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shots like this are where it helps to know some of the science behind ball interactions. So, just what parts of the science are applicable to this shot? You have a rolling ball vs. a sliding ball, you have the tangent line, you have the 30 degree rule, and you have how speed affects those rules.

1. For the first ob to follow the second ob into the pocket, the first ob must be a rolling ball. A sliding ob will not follow. This means that there must be enough distance between the two ob for the first ball to obtain a rolling ball status. Or, a rolling ball status must be induced to it. This can be done with heavy draw on the cb. With a fair amount of distance between the two ob's, draw is not necessary.

2. Tangent line- here, the 1st ob is actually acting like the cb as far as the 2nd ob is concerned. So, I will refer to it as the ob/cb, whereas the actual cb is just cb.

The ob/cb will travel off the ob at a 90 degree angle if not hit full. Knowing this, one can look at any desired tangent line off the ob that will still enable the ob/cb to immediately go into the points of the pocket. The drawback to this, is that you see that there is a small contact point area on the ob that will allow the ob/cb to still pocket.

3. The 30 degree rule states that the cb will travel at very close to 30 degrees off the ob after initially going down the tangent line when the cb is a rolling ball. How far it travels down the tangent line first is determined by the speed of the cb.

For an ob in the jaws of the pocket, this rule won't come into play due to the very short tangent line availability. However, if the ob is several inches away from the pocket, then this rule might come into play in determining just where you want the ob/cb to hit the ob so as to pocket the ob/cb.

As Bob and Fran stated, if the ob is near the jaws of the pocket, you essentially need to hit the ob as full as possible with the ob/cb. And the ob/cb must be a rolling ball.
 

JC

Coos Cues
I've seen that in trick shots before never in a game yet....how were conditions?


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Not to derail the thread.

It was on a valley bar box with nappy cloth, a little humid with a red dot cue ball. The balls were cheap, old and dirty. I I hit it pretty firmly to clear the middle ball away from the pocket and they just all followed in.

JC
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not to derail the thread.

It was on a valley bar box with nappy cloth, a little humid with a red dot cue ball. The balls were cheap, old and dirty. I I hit it pretty firmly to clear the middle ball away from the pocket and they just all followed in.

JC

Doing it by accident is one thing, but the key is to be able to do it on demand. Oh, and by the way, was the cue ball a red dot or red circle? Red dots were heavier than red circles. I haven't seen a red dot cue ball in a long time. I thought they were pretty much gone. Also, there's a difference in the color. The maroon colored dots and circles were the old Hyatt balls which were heavier than today's red circle balls. Some of them are probably still floating around, but not many. All those little details can make a difference.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Doing it by accident is one thing, but the key is to be able to do it on demand. Oh, and by the way, was the cue ball a red dot or red circle? Red dots were heavier than red circles. I haven't seen a red dot cue ball in a long time. I thought they were pretty much gone. Also, there's a difference in the color. The maroon colored dots and circles were the old Hyatt balls which were heavier than today's red circle balls. Some of them are probably still floating around, but not many. All those little details can make a difference.

Of course it was by accident. I have no idea how to do it on demand. And since I've never seen it done in a game I bet I'm not alone.

Yes it was an old heavy red dot cue ball we used to use for league play. We still have two of them over at the room that don't get used any more.

JC
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Of course it was by accident. I have no idea how to do it on demand. And since I've never seen it done in a game I bet I'm not alone.

Yes it was an old heavy red dot cue ball we used to use for league play. We still have two of them over at the room that don't get used any more.

JC

Ah, so it was the old red dot. I don't play much 8 ball but when I have, I've done it occasionally on demand. Perceiving the over-cut works for me.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Ah, so it was the old red dot. I don't play much 8 ball but when I have, I've done it occasionally on demand. Perceiving the over-cut works for me.

You know I'm talking about making 3 object balls and not 2 right?

JC
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You know I'm talking about making 3 object balls and not 2 right?

JC

No I didn't. Glad you cleared that up. I thought you meant the third ball was the cue ball. I don't ever recall trying for three object balls, so I don't know if it could be done on demand, even with practice.
 
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