Mosconi cup 2015 2016
- Thread starter pro9dg
- Start date
I doubt if this will be announced before the end of October or early November
Who cares who's on the team. Our best player, by a mile, got crushed. Unless the Ko brothers, Alex, Efren and Bustamante become citizens of the USA we simply don't have the weapons to fight Europe. They sent their B team and killed us. If they added Mika, and Thorsten they would be impossible for any American team to beat no matter who's on it unless we got really lucky.
That stated there should be a playoff or some sort of points system to determine who's on the team similar to what Europe uses. This likely would not produce the best team, e. g. does anybody in the world think that Mark Gray can play with Thorsten, but at least it would be fair.
Pick four tournaments. Maybe Turning Stone, The DCC, U. S. Open and maybe an open Mosconi Cup qualifier and award points to the top finishing American players. At least this way the deserving go. I don't think it would change anything, we would likely still get slaughtered, but at least it would be transparent and fair.
That stated there should be a playoff or some sort of points system to determine who's on the team similar to what Europe uses. This likely would not produce the best team, e. g. does anybody in the world think that Mark Gray can play with Thorsten, but at least it would be fair.
Pick four tournaments. Maybe Turning Stone, The DCC, U. S. Open and maybe an open Mosconi Cup qualifier and award points to the top finishing American players. At least this way the deserving go. I don't think it would change anything, we would likely still get slaughtered, but at least it would be transparent and fair.
GREAT POST! Thanks Mark Griffin, however, I am afraid "the kid" is not likely to be discouraged.
Actually Barton didn't give you 10k. Lou you earned every dollar of the10k not only by putting up with the biggest circus ever in history before any pool match but by simply staying focused and playing well under the pressure.
Full disclosure; I have (it would seem) the unpopular point of view that the U.S. could field more than one team that would be competitive. Just by following the threads and taking into account the opinions of the many learned contributors to AZ I could come up with at least 3 or 4. Lack of skilled players is not the problem.
Mark Wilson was appointed (anointed?) the Captain of Team U.S.A. Mosconi Cup and we all applauded. We all seemed to be behind him 100%, at least I was. I listened to his words, took a long refreshing drink of the kool-aid, looked at the calendar and booked myself off for the week that the Cup would be played and was prepared to witness the rebirth of U.S.A pool.
Within a short period of time I became concerned. Tried more Kool-aid and it didn’t work. I believe that to truly put together a team with real chemistry and designed to lessen the affects of the pressure that they will face in the Mosconi Cup (especially in Europe) each Player must feel that they belong to be there. They have to feel that they are an integral part of the team, that they can count on the other members and that the other members can count on them. The selection system did not do that.
The selection process was flawed. It started too early in terms of picking 8 players to compete with each other to make the final 5 that would be selected. The tone was more about how Mark Wilson would take raw, undeserving but talented players and mould them into a real team of sportsmen. He would leave behind more skilled players because they could not be moulded in the image of the future of pool; in his image. By the time they went to the Navy Seal training base I was chugging Kool-aid by the gallon but it had stopped to work on me. The whole process had become all about Mark.
From the opening interview at the cup through the interview with Mark and the Seal, Amir it was about the genius of Mark Wilson, how he had to go with other players (the inference being that many good players in the U.S. are so lacking in integrity that a major house cleaning was needed) and how he had moulded them (sounding like it could become the plot for an off Broadway production based on My Fair Lady). Through it all, Amir sat and smiled, content to take any left-over credit not absorbed by Mark as he was clearly seen as being the second best aspect of the team and any success the players might have was a result of the genius shown by Mark in having him there.
I have watched and re-watched the full cup proceedings a few times now. The facts are clear. Team USA players gave it a good shot. Played well under intense pressure, supported each other and tried to fill the void in leadership that their Captain created. Real leadership just was not there.
Just watch the two Captains and how they acted (re-acted) as the matches progressed. Mark Wilson visibly withdrew, his face stony enough to be seen as auditioning for Mount Rushmore. Watching his face one could almost read his mind as he could not understand how these players had not responded when he had Amir, the Seal, put on the doo rag and sunglasses. How dare they!
His exit interview at the end of the match says a lot. “We were outplayed from the start” (nothing about being outcaptained)
It is also interesting to listen what was said by each Captain before the event started;
Mark: “There is not many times in real life where you get to realize that everything you sacrificed for a goal was worth it. We talked about this being a defining moment in their career and don’t leave anything behind, they worked hard all year we’re really excited for what lies ahead.”
Johan: “They’ve done it a couple of times. We will always be prepared no matter what team USA looks like and we are gonna have a great time here.”
We did not hear much from the actual players so I would offer this helpful guide to hopefuls wanting to make the team next year.
The Top 10 things a player needs to be able to say in order to have a chance of making the USA Marksconi Cup team;
10-I play pool and have fun while doing it.
9-I always show pleasant enthusiasm when I play.
8-I come to play.
7- I leave nothing behind.
6- I play well with others.
5-I want to win one for Mark, Amir, the good Doctor, all their friends, the Gipper and maybe the team and the fans (I think).
4- I know the words to Kumbaya.
3-I love the taste of Kool-aid
2-I want to sip Kool-aid from the Marksconi Cup (ed. Note: don’t we all!)
And,
1- I sang “Mark the Herald Players Sing” in front of his house during the Christmas season.
More seriously, to the players that make the team; Best wishes to Team USA for the 2015 Mosconi Cup whoever you are!
Jerry
Mark Wilson was appointed (anointed?) the Captain of Team U.S.A. Mosconi Cup and we all applauded. We all seemed to be behind him 100%, at least I was. I listened to his words, took a long refreshing drink of the kool-aid, looked at the calendar and booked myself off for the week that the Cup would be played and was prepared to witness the rebirth of U.S.A pool.
Within a short period of time I became concerned. Tried more Kool-aid and it didn’t work. I believe that to truly put together a team with real chemistry and designed to lessen the affects of the pressure that they will face in the Mosconi Cup (especially in Europe) each Player must feel that they belong to be there. They have to feel that they are an integral part of the team, that they can count on the other members and that the other members can count on them. The selection system did not do that.
The selection process was flawed. It started too early in terms of picking 8 players to compete with each other to make the final 5 that would be selected. The tone was more about how Mark Wilson would take raw, undeserving but talented players and mould them into a real team of sportsmen. He would leave behind more skilled players because they could not be moulded in the image of the future of pool; in his image. By the time they went to the Navy Seal training base I was chugging Kool-aid by the gallon but it had stopped to work on me. The whole process had become all about Mark.
From the opening interview at the cup through the interview with Mark and the Seal, Amir it was about the genius of Mark Wilson, how he had to go with other players (the inference being that many good players in the U.S. are so lacking in integrity that a major house cleaning was needed) and how he had moulded them (sounding like it could become the plot for an off Broadway production based on My Fair Lady). Through it all, Amir sat and smiled, content to take any left-over credit not absorbed by Mark as he was clearly seen as being the second best aspect of the team and any success the players might have was a result of the genius shown by Mark in having him there.
I have watched and re-watched the full cup proceedings a few times now. The facts are clear. Team USA players gave it a good shot. Played well under intense pressure, supported each other and tried to fill the void in leadership that their Captain created. Real leadership just was not there.
Just watch the two Captains and how they acted (re-acted) as the matches progressed. Mark Wilson visibly withdrew, his face stony enough to be seen as auditioning for Mount Rushmore. Watching his face one could almost read his mind as he could not understand how these players had not responded when he had Amir, the Seal, put on the doo rag and sunglasses. How dare they!
His exit interview at the end of the match says a lot. “We were outplayed from the start” (nothing about being outcaptained)
It is also interesting to listen what was said by each Captain before the event started;
Mark: “There is not many times in real life where you get to realize that everything you sacrificed for a goal was worth it. We talked about this being a defining moment in their career and don’t leave anything behind, they worked hard all year we’re really excited for what lies ahead.”
Johan: “They’ve done it a couple of times. We will always be prepared no matter what team USA looks like and we are gonna have a great time here.”
We did not hear much from the actual players so I would offer this helpful guide to hopefuls wanting to make the team next year.
The Top 10 things a player needs to be able to say in order to have a chance of making the USA Marksconi Cup team;
10-I play pool and have fun while doing it.
9-I always show pleasant enthusiasm when I play.
8-I come to play.
7- I leave nothing behind.
6- I play well with others.
5-I want to win one for Mark, Amir, the good Doctor, all their friends, the Gipper and maybe the team and the fans (I think).
4- I know the words to Kumbaya.
3-I love the taste of Kool-aid
2-I want to sip Kool-aid from the Marksconi Cup (ed. Note: don’t we all!)
And,
1- I sang “Mark the Herald Players Sing” in front of his house during the Christmas season.
More seriously, to the players that make the team; Best wishes to Team USA for the 2015 Mosconi Cup whoever you are!
Jerry
The one thing I really can't stand about the whole Mosconi Cup selection process is the concept of "going young".
In an attempt at weeding out certain players I think (key word there) Mark latched on to this "going young" philosophy and I really just don't care for it. I think it was the easy way for Mark to go. By going young he could just eliminate all the old guard in one fell swoop and not have to address the subject of certain player’s attitudes on an individual basis. Instead, he could just eliminate them all.
The problem I have with this approach is it eliminated one player -- Johnny Archer -- that I don't think deserved to be eliminated. There were others on previous Mosconi Cup teams that probably deserved to be eliminated from consideration but I've never gotten a good answer as to why Archer wasn't worthy of consideration. Not only has his Mosconi Cup play been as good or better than any other U.S. player (including all of them on this year's team), but also the U.S. team has had good results with him being the playing captain of the team.
Any litmus test for the Mosconi Cup that's based on an arbitrary age requirement really has no place in pool. Being able to play this game at a high level throughout one's lifetime is one of the great things about this game that we all love. Turning to some of the younger players simply because they are younger and not necessarily because they are better is horrible for the sport and age should never even be mentioned during the selection process.
I would really like to hear what it is that disqualifies Johnny Archer from consideration for the Mosconi Cup? Anyone care to fill me in?
In an attempt at weeding out certain players I think (key word there) Mark latched on to this "going young" philosophy and I really just don't care for it. I think it was the easy way for Mark to go. By going young he could just eliminate all the old guard in one fell swoop and not have to address the subject of certain player’s attitudes on an individual basis. Instead, he could just eliminate them all.
The problem I have with this approach is it eliminated one player -- Johnny Archer -- that I don't think deserved to be eliminated. There were others on previous Mosconi Cup teams that probably deserved to be eliminated from consideration but I've never gotten a good answer as to why Archer wasn't worthy of consideration. Not only has his Mosconi Cup play been as good or better than any other U.S. player (including all of them on this year's team), but also the U.S. team has had good results with him being the playing captain of the team.
Any litmus test for the Mosconi Cup that's based on an arbitrary age requirement really has no place in pool. Being able to play this game at a high level throughout one's lifetime is one of the great things about this game that we all love. Turning to some of the younger players simply because they are younger and not necessarily because they are better is horrible for the sport and age should never even be mentioned during the selection process.
I would really like to hear what it is that disqualifies Johnny Archer from consideration for the Mosconi Cup? Anyone care to fill me in?
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I may not think JA did a great job as Captain but he has been a great player and represented the US well for a long time in this competition and has earned the right to be told why he was excluded. Maybe he was told but I doubt it. At any rate, I'm with you I would love to know.
I stand to be corrected but think he played 17 straight Mosconi Cups until this year with as good a record as anybody and year before last may have not lost a point the whole Mosconi Cup. There should always be room for talent and experience