C.J. Wiley VS Keith McCready - What's The Line?

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
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JAM,

FWIW, I would have loved to have played Keith way back when I had the chance, but I never got the opportunity. I lived in Riverside, CA for 3 years (1976-79) and I heard his name quite often and LOTS of people told me that I should match up with him. I never made it to San Diego and I never saw him playing anywhere near where I was.

I don't know who would have won at the time, but it would have been fun playing. Back during that time, I played a lot like Keith...aggressive and I liked working the crowd. There used to be more people watching me play than anybody else in the pool halls and bars I played in.

I didn't go looking for anybody to play and didn't frequent any place in particular. I would just "wander" into pool halls and bars and see what happened from there. I played in places that most people were afraid to even go in...biker bars, dives, etc. One of my favorite places to go were Mexican bars,where I may be the only non-Latino in the place. Not the safest places, but I never had any problems because I never tried to "hustle" anyone. I just played, gathered the cash if I could, smiled, entertained, and left. Usually, I was alone...sometimes people would want to go with me to stake me, but I preferred going by myself. I knew I could control myself and my money and I knew I couldn't control other people and their money, so I didn't want them starting anything where there would be trouble. Earlier in my life, I had more than my fair share of having to fight my way out of a place after arguments over me winning all the money so I tried to avoid that.

No matter if I won or lost, people were more entertained by me than they were the pool game. I could run racks, play the jukebox, dance and joke and talk $hit at the same time...same as Keith. Boy, I miss those days. I'm too old (60) blind, and out of stroke to play very well anymore and I only play once a week for a couple hours, but I still can make a few balls when I get lucky...I had a 6-pack not too long ago.

Aloha.

I wonder if we ever played or even met each other. I was very active in the late 60's and early 70's all over L.A in bars and poolrooms. Later on I moved to Bakersfield and had a room up there for several years. I played everyone who walked thru the doors!
 

rivercitysledge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Heh, heh... nice doggie.:eek:uttahere:

Akitas are incredible dogs. One of my martial arts teachers had a huge male named Josh. First time I had a lesson with him he told me to toot my horn and wait by the gate for him to come out. He came to the gate and introduced himself, then said, "Time to meet my dog, Josh. He will want to smell you, and I suggest you just stand there and let him until he is done."

Sounded OK. He let me in the gate and Josh came running up to me and buried his snout in my crotch, sniffing and snorting like a madman for about a minute. As suggested, I didn't move a muscle. Once Josh was satisfied, he quietly walked away and lay down in the shade of a nearby tree. I proceeded to adjust my skivvies to make sure I hadn't soiled them.

During the time I studied with Danny we sometimes got into it pretty good, and one time I got curious and asked him why Josh never thought I was really trying to hurt his master. "Trust me", he said, "he knows the difference. You wouldn't be walking if he didn't."

lol i have to say thats true...these dogs know their teritory for sure....the lady i got mine from told me her 2 brothers ran down a deer in their field id like to have seen that...
 

sheffield6

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Breaking like that turns the game into a "par 3 course" (golf analogy) where you take all the mid and long irons out of play. Pool's the same way, when a champion player breaks and runs a rack it only requires about 2-5% of their total ability.

The best part of their games will hardly ever surface. This is a tragedy because these skills are the most entertaining (for fans) and challenging (for players).

Breaking and Running a rack isn't the toughest part of pool....not by a long shot. ;)

tis for me:cool:
 

Lonestar_jim

Two & Out
Silver Member
I wonder if we ever played or even met each other. I was very active in the late 60's and early 70's all over L.A in bars and poolrooms. Later on I moved to Bakersfield and had a room up there for several years. I played everyone who walked thru the doors!
Well if you are blind too and still running 6-packs, I vote to change the title of this thread to Jay vs. HawaiianEye.

You guys could get CJ and Keith as backers because they aren't likely to be running those numbers.

Maybe I can get old faster and up my game some.
 

alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Breaking like that turns the game into a "par 3 course" (golf analogy) where you take all the mid and long irons out of play. Pool's the same way, when a champion player breaks and runs a rack it only requires about 2-5% of their total ability.

The best part of their games will hardly ever surface. This is a tragedy because these skills are the most entertaining (for fans) and challenging (for players).

Breaking and Running a rack isn't the toughest part of pool....not by a long shot. ;)

CJ , sorry but this is the one of the craziest things I have seen you post.What is your reasoning? Every shot is difficult. Every shot requires attention.
2 to 5 %? My ass.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
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Even a beginner will seldom use half their knowledge on any single rack

You may not be following my example, it wasn't explained in depth.

I played in 3 tournaments last week. Many of the games I played only required me to shoot the same type shot over and over to win the game. How much of my total skill do you think it took to shoot that same type shot over and over? 1%? or 2%?

I've never played a game of 9 ball in my life that required 10% of my total knowledge/experience, and I believe this goes for any accomplished player. Even a beginner will seldom use half their knowledge on any single rack......this would be highly unlikely......of course as they improve their knowledge evolves and becomes more systematic.




CJ , sorry but this is the one of the craziest things I have seen you post.What is your reasoning? Every shot is difficult. Every shot requires attention.
2 to 5 %? My ass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post
Breaking like that turns the game into a "par 3 course" (golf analogy) where you take all the mid and long irons out of play. Pool's the same way, when a champion player breaks and runs a rack it only requires about 2-5% of their total ability.

The best part of their games will hardly ever surface. This is a tragedy because these skills are the most entertaining (for fans) and challenging (for players).

Breaking and Running a rack isn't the toughest part of pool....not by a long shot.
 

jamesjr1963

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You may not be following my example, it wasn't explained in depth.

I played in 3 tournaments last week. Many of the games I played only required me to shoot the same type shot over and over to win the game. How much of my total skill do you think it took to shoot that same type shot over and over? 1%? or 2%?

I've never played a game of 9 ball in my life that required 10% of my total knowledge/experience, and I believe this goes for any accomplished player. Even a beginner will seldom use half their knowledge on any single rack......this would be highly unlikely......of course as they improve their knowledge evolves and becomes more systematic.

Could this be due to fact you may have mastered a single shot? :-D
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
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you must be of advanced understanding.

I wondered if anyone would pick up on that....you must be of advanced understanding.


beginners-mind.jpg






Could this be due to fact you may have mastered a single shot? :-D
 
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CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
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I appreciate you recognizing the accomplishment.

Throwing you off was challenging, I appreciate you recognizing the accomplishment. :groucho:


CJ seems to have lost most of his top speed given his tournament finishes. Maybe he is just hiding his speed... but he us hiding it really well imo.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
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A unique, sharp witted, extremely confident professional with a ton of knowledge

Yes, this was before I started playing regularly on the pro tour.

Before one of my first big tournaments I was still in the gambling mode. The guy I was with said to go ask two of the players if they wanted to gamble....some guys named "Mike and Jimmy".

I marched right up to them and ask them if either one of them wanted to gamble. Mike Sigel looked at Jimmy Rempe with a startled look, quickly regrouped himself and said "sure, kid, we'll get right back to you about that".
s18-09l.gif


Mike Sigel is a blast to be around, maybe too much personality for some, you just have to take him as he is......a unique, sharp witted, extremely confident professional with a ton of knowledge and experience. I'm glad he wouldn't play me that day, chances are I wouldn't have liked it. ;)


Nah, they certainly were both terrific players at young ages. I think CJ has said that he pretty much gave up the road for tournaments in 1991 (when he would have been about 26), so his Indianapolis match-up with Archer might have occurred before that. Archer was playing pro events in his teens, but won his first one in 1991. His first world championship was in 1992.
 
Tim, you guys had your run with substance abuse. Snooker is very far removed from "puritanical". Jimmy White was a crack addict, Ronnie O. was big into booze and cocaine, and Alex Higgins, well...

Higgins was about as loathsome a character as ever held a cue, and you guys revere him. Not only did he drink and use drugs to great excess, he smoked like a chimney, head-butted officials, gut-punched promoters, and was quite the little woman beater as well. His antics made Keither look like a Mormon by comparison, and Earl the Pearl seem like Mother Teresa.

Keith is a good guy by all accounts, a man who drank and had fun, and brought delight to everyone who saw him play. Higgins brought only misery to himself and everyone who came near him. "The People's Champion". What kind of people are you, anyway?

We are people that love the underdog and heroic failure. I suspect jimmy white wouldn't be nearly so popular as he is now if he had actually won a world championship, rather than bottling six in quick succession.

But you make a fair point. Snooker is pretty clean now though, and the prize money ensures the best players are out in the open and scrutinised.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
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Snooker is a great classic game. When do you think they'll allow "jump cues"?


We are people that love the underdog and heroic failure. I suspect jimmy white wouldn't be nearly so popular as he is now if he had actually won a world championship, rather than bottling six in quick succession.

But you make a fair point. Snooker is pretty clean now though, and the prize money ensures the best players are out in the open and scrutinised.
 

SakuJack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We are people that love the underdog and heroic failure. I suspect jimmy white wouldn't be nearly so popular as he is now if he had actually won a world championship, rather than bottling six in quick succession.

I'd say this is definitely the case. Someone like Jimmy White will always be a fan favourite, but losing six world finals (especially when set against a winning machine like Hendry in four of them) definitely helped his popularity.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
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Anytime you introduce new equipment without committee's approval there's risk

I respect how they've kept the integrity of snooker in tact, I was being facetious about jump cues of course. Anytime you introduce new equipment without committee's approval there's risk of jeopardizing a game/sport's future......our pool game had to learn this the hard way.

My game was influenced by a snooker coach, I wish I'd played more of the game at a younger age. My pool room, CJ's, in Dallas had a 6/12 that stayed busy, but I only played on it a dozen times or so. When I played on the Mosconi Cup in 96 I bought a snooker cue and brought it back, but was playing so much pool I didn't want to mix the two.

Ronnie O'Sullivan gave me a great tip - he thinks of "hitting the white with his elbow" - it's in one of his video's on You Tube where he's teaching several kids. The elbow's correct role in the stroke is important, whether it's snooker, golf, tennis, and of course, pool.


When there is a desperate need to boost ratings. Never, hopefully.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
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What players would you like to see play this type of game?

I believe you're right, it's time to properly showcase the "old style rules".

What players would you like to see play this type of game? Remember, you can't win by simply out-breaking and out-racking your opponent, it requires incredible shot-making.
562932_502070593152315_1490191998_n.jpg



Hell, I don't know why CJ does not fly many of his generation into his home room & matchup with Mary Avina filming & doing commentary.

Anyway I'd certainly like to see the match even if was just for the one time.
 

peteypooldude

I see Edges
Silver Member
CJ and Keith play for what ever they can muster up. I am sure CJ has a lot of cash with all the video's he is selling.

Keith on the other hand may have some trouble raising the cash. Not sure if he works or just stays home and remembers the "good ole days".

Maybe JAM has a nest egg that she would be willing to invest in Keith.

Now that might be interesting. :smile:

I'd bet Keith can bet as high as he chooses and CJ can do the same
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
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may as well gamble with it, if not it's just worthless paper.

Cash is not a problem, we start out counting it, then measuring it, then if we book a big winner we usually weigh it. The problem is where to store it where it won't disintegrate....may as well gamble with it, if not it's just worthless paper. ;)


CJ and Keith play for what ever they can muster up. I am sure CJ has a lot of cash with all the video's he is selling.

Keith on the other hand may have some trouble raising the cash. Not sure if he works or just stays home and remembers the "good ole days".

Maybe JAM has a nest egg that she would be willing to invest in Keith.

Now that might be interesting. :smile:
 
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