Call Shot/Call Safety strategy against players of different speeds

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ssbn610g

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I heard through the grapevine that a 10 ball league I play in is going to call shot/call safety and was curious how others who play this way adjusted their strategy against players of different speed. With the change, I will lose one of my favorite plays, the two way shot.

My first thoughts are I will pass back difficult shots which don't have good safety potential even if they are not hidden to players who have a difficult time running two balls hoping for better run out potential. Against good players, I see being more conservative and playing more safeties than I usually do. It seems like CB control will become more important and it will make the game more conservative.

Am I off base in my thinking? What are your thoughts and experiences?

Al
 
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ssbn610g

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I guess my explanation was not clear enough. In our present format, we always call our shot but on a miss if you leave a ball safe by accident, the other player does not have the option of passing the shot back. In the new format, the player will have that option.

Thx

Al
 
Allen Brown

Allen Brown

Pool Whale
Silver Member
Your league will lose a lot of lower level players. They will not enjoy kicking at balls or trying to jump them. Be prepared.
 
K

King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not good...,

ssbn610g said:
I heard through the grapevine that a 10 ball league I play in is going to call shot/call safety and was curious how others who play this way adjusted their strategy against players of different speed. With the change, I will lose one of my favorite plays, the two way shot.

My first thoughts are I will pass back difficult shots which don't have good safety potential even if they are not hidden to players who have a difficult time running two balls hoping for better run out potential. Against good players, I see being more conservative and playing more safeties than I usually do. It seems like CB control will become more important and it will make the game more conservative.

Am I off base in my thinking? What are your thoughts and experiences?

Al
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Unless you are a high level player it wont be enjoyable. The game is already tuff as it is, take luck out and most players will find it painful.
 
thefonz

thefonz

It's not me...it's my ADD
Silver Member
King T said:
Unless you are a high level player it wont be enjoyable. The game is already tuff as it is, take luck out and most players will find it painful.
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Probably so, but it would push their abilities up for the better. It might make handicapping the league more fair. The presence of luck in the game always makes handicapping tough.
 
Keith Jawahir

Keith Jawahir

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the league I currently play in, we use call shot/safe rules for 10-ball, and call 9 for 9-ball. During playoffs, the player who wins the lag gets to choose the game, from 8, 9, or 10-ball. I hardly saw anybody play 9-ball. Everyone went for either 10-ball or 8-ball.
 
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ssbn610g

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I sure hope we do not lose players and I sure hope the game does not become boring. I like to play aggressively shooting many shots and difficult position off of shots. That to me is a great deal of fun. Winning is important to me but not at the expense of fun. I have really caught the bug again.

Cya on the felt.

Al

Thx to all who responded.
 
hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here is what I like for 10 ball, although off topic a bit. Instead of being able to just pass back a shot after a miss, the incoming player can play a push out, shoot it or give the shot back. If the shot is given back, then that player can chose to either shoot it or do a push out.

That way you can still have some sort of control of the situation if given back an accidental hook after you missed instead of just being forced to shoot it. Since usually a push out will favor the incoming player (ability being equal), the player that passed it back to you will still have a bit of an advantage and at least won't be forced to kick or jump on an accidental hook, he has 3 options there. The player that hooked him has only 2 options, play it or push it. Playing a hook is a disadvantage normally, playing a push out to another player is also a disadvantage, the player hooked originally is in a better spot either way.

While this still takes out a two way shot, you can still do that and end up in an OK situation and will prevent a situation where you just miss a tough shot, got good on the next ball, but happened to hook the guy. With the push shot in play, there are a lot more options.

See if they would play like that, I'm actually a bit surprised that I have not run across a tournament or league that tried a rule like this. It really opens up the game to a lot of strategy instead of just safe or shoot. If you call safe and make a ball accidently the guy can pass it back also, in the push out option once again you have options.
 
rhatten

rhatten

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If texas express nine ball want run your players off, nothing will. That game is soo YESTERDAY... I mean ESPN Yesterday. Who wants to win or lose playing a gaft game? Pool needs to 'Man Up' and stop supporting games that rewards no practice, lucky roles, bad form and bad shots. NOBODY LIKES IT >>>

We're better than that.... and if your not, either get more instruction/ practice more/better or hey pick an easier sport thats more your speed. We are the only ones that can change this sport for the better for the next generation of players. Rewarding player for being a lucky SOB instead of for a sporting effort isn't inline with upscale gamesmanship.

If your playing (supporting) a 'piss in' game, you're supporting the reason pool is not attracting better players and yes a higher quality environment imo. Demand better from the Tournament directors and league operators and watch players gain more respect for the opponents and the games. Stop the BS.

just my opinion,

Randy


ssbn610g said:
I sure hope we do not lose players and I sure hope the game does not become boring. I like to play aggressively shooting many shots and difficult position off of shots. That to me is a great deal of fun. Winning is important to me but not at the expense of fun. I have really caught the bug again.

Cya on the felt.

Al

Thx to all who responded.
Click to expand...
 
DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
hang-the-9 said:
Here is what I like for 10 ball, although off topic a bit. Instead of being able to just pass back a shot after a miss, the incoming player can play a push out, shoot it or give the shot back. If the shot is given back, then that player can chose to either shoot it or do a push out.

That way you can still have some sort of control of the situation if given back an accidental hook after you missed instead of just being forced to shoot it. Since usually a push out will favor the incoming player (ability being equal), the player that passed it back to you will still have a bit of an advantage and at least won't be forced to kick or jump on an accidental hook, he has 3 options there. The player that hooked him has only 2 options, play it or push it. Playing a hook is a disadvantage normally, playing a push out to another player is also a disadvantage, the player hooked originally is in a better spot either way.

While this still takes out a two way shot, you can still do that and end up in an OK situation and will prevent a situation where you just miss a tough shot, got good on the next ball, but happened to hook the guy. With the push shot in play, there are a lot more options.

See if they would play like that, I'm actually a bit surprised that I have not run across a tournament or league that tried a rule like this. It really opens up the game to a lot of strategy instead of just safe or shoot. If you call safe and make a ball accidently the guy can pass it back also, in the push out option once again you have options.
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Not sure I get this. It gives the guy who missed and fell ass backward into hooking his opponent a get out of jail free card. After a miss I'd rather the incoming player be able to push out if he was inadvertently hooked, instead of being stuck kicking.
 
CJ Wiley

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
Overall this rule favors the better player that has the patience to play safe

The "Call Pocket/Call Safety" rule takes away from the potential skill of this game because it eliminates "2 Way Shots" - the good part about it is you can make your opponent shoot again if they hook you while attempting a shot.

Overall this rule favors the better player that has the patience to play safe when faced with any difficult shot. This strategy is effective, although it's not very exciting to watch.


ssbn610g said:
I heard through the grapevine that a 10 ball league I play in is going to call shot/call safety and was curious how others who play this way adjusted their strategy against players of different speed. With the change, I will lose one of my favorite plays, the two way shot.

My first thoughts are I will pass back difficult shots which don't have good safety potential even if they are not hidden to players who have a difficult time running two balls hoping for better run out potential. Against good players, I see being more conservative and playing more safeties than I usually do. It seems like CB control will become more important and it will make the game more conservative.

Am I off base in my thinking? What are your thoughts and experiences?

Al
Click to expand...
 
S

ssbn610g

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CJ Wiley said:
The "Call Pocket/Call Safety" rule takes away from the potential skill of this game because it eliminates "2 Way Shots" - the good part about it is you can make your opponent shoot again if they hook you while attempting a shot.

Overall this rule favors the better player that has the patience to play safe when faced with any difficult shot. This strategy is effective, although it's not very exciting to watch.
Click to expand...

Yep, just about I thought. I will still have fun.

Thanks for your response.

Al
 
alstl

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not smart enough to figure out what shot to play for each opponent depending on their ability. For me, speaking only for myself, not telling anybody else what to do, I play balls on the table.

Irving Crane said he never thought about who the opponent was, he played the balls.
 
S

ssbn610g

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
alstl said:
I'm not smart enough to figure out what shot to play for each opponent depending on their ability. For me, speaking only for myself, not telling anybody else what to do, I play balls on the table.

Irving Crane said he never thought about who the opponent was, he played the balls.
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Good point and I would never doubt anything Crane would have said. I guess in hindsight the question is probably moot.

Thx

Al
 
hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DogsPlayingPool said:
Not sure I get this. It gives the guy who missed and fell ass backward into hooking his opponent a get out of jail free card. After a miss I'd rather the incoming player be able to push out if he was inadvertently hooked, instead of being stuck kicking.
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Not sure you got what I was saying, the incoming player has the first pick as to what to do. He can either pass the shot back as is, push out or play the shot. Then the other guy can either push out or shoot it. If the player that was hooked accidentally does not like the puch out position, he can just pass on it. It's a benefit to the player that got hooked but you are not punishing as much the player that missed the shot if he just had to shoot the shot as it was.

I think it's a very good compromized between the call all safety and shots and no call safeties. Now if you do call a safe, you can't pass the shot back, the incoming player has to shoot it where it is. The option of a push out gives a bit of the two way shot back but not so much that if the guy misses and leaves you safe by accident you are not punished for his mistake, you can still work with the table with the 3 options instead of just one.
 
S

smashmouth

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
rhatten said:
If texas express nine ball want run your players off, nothing will. That game is soo YESTERDAY... I mean ESPN Yesterday. Who wants to win or lose playing a gaft game? Pool needs to 'Man Up' and stop supporting games that rewards no practice, lucky roles, bad form and bad shots. NOBODY LIKES IT >>>

We're better than that.... and if your not, either get more instruction/ practice more/better or hey pick an easier sport thats more your speed. We are the only ones that can change this sport for the better for the next generation of players. Rewarding player for being a lucky SOB instead of for a sporting effort isn't inline with upscale gamesmanship.

If your playing (supporting) a 'piss in' game, you're supporting the reason pool is not attracting better players and yes a higher quality environment imo. Demand better from the Tournament directors and league operators and watch players gain more respect for the opponents and the games. Stop the BS.

just my opinion,

Randy
Click to expand...

agreed, pool DOES need to man up

players should never be rewarded for missing shots, we should be punished, i love call shot call safety, it's the end of slop as we know it imo
 
hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
alstl said:
I'm not smart enough to figure out what shot to play for each opponent depending on their ability. For me, speaking only for myself, not telling anybody else what to do, I play balls on the table.

Irving Crane said he never thought about who the opponent was, he played the balls.
Click to expand...

I would say that is partly true. If you are playing Shane or Bustie, it does not matter much who those guys are for your shot selection. If you were playing the local drunk who has his own fancy 5-peice cue with a screw on tip, you would be a lot more likely to play a tough shot than try a safety since you know the chances of him winning even with ball in hand would be about 0. And that is really true for a push out selection. You maybe would push to a jump shot if playing Eferen more often than if playing Earl.
 
S

ssbn610g

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The reason I decided it was moot is because I am already choosing shots depending on who I am playing and a change in the format will not affect that. There are a number of players in the league who will run out if you leave them anything. Of course, there are players who will have a difficult time running out even with a decent layout. I was thinking of passing back a shot that was open but a difficult runout. Also, instead of calling a pocket on a kick shot I will probably call a safety just in case I get a roll where I actually leave the kick safe. I know there are a number of players in the league who will call a shot that has no chance of being made to keep there rating down (misses in USAPL league tend to reduce a rating a tad). Not sure of the exact algorithm.

One comment about Crane. I believe his main game was Str8 pool even though he was great at all games and I believe the interaction between players was reduced whereas in rotation games it happens more frequently unless you are playing at the highest levels which I am not. As you are running out it is all about the balls. When and if you screw up your position, it is all about your choice of how best to put your opponent in a difficult position. His/her speed enters into this decision for me.

Excited about the up coming spring session.

Al
 
alstl

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hang-the-9 said:
I would say that is partly true. If you are playing Shane or Bustie, it does not matter much who those guys are for your shot selection. If you were playing the local drunk who has his own fancy 5-peice cue with a screw on tip, you would be a lot more likely to play a tough shot than try a safety since you know the chances of him winning even with ball in hand would be about 0. And that is really true for a push out selection. You maybe would push to a jump shot if playing Eferen more often than if playing Earl.
Click to expand...

In both cases I would play the best available shot on the table because that gives me the best chance to win.

Regarding the "drunk with a 5 piece cue" one of Tom Ferry's hustles was to act drunk and use a cheap 3 piece cue precisely to get people to let their guard down. Hustlers make a living off people who play differently because they don't realize they are up against a top player.
 
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