Dominant eye or train to see what you see

7

7forlife

AzB Silver Member
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So it feels to me that many aspect of pool are part of the "modern" era pool, also you have people relying on equipment of others in hopes of playing like them (i guess). Oh what shaft is he using, what stick, tip, aiming system and now dominant eye.

So my question is do snooker players believe in it, again not new players per say but those from a few years ago and back. They have always practiced (or preached) "Cue on the chin, GET THAT CUE ON YOU CHIN MAGGOT" which would not help with that now would it. So are most of the snooker player neutral with their eyes, are the ones who "make it" so to say neutral eyed or do they keep that part of the game a constant and then just train to "see what they see" and make the adjustment there.
i.e. keep a neutral head position but aim just a hair to the left or right to make up for the eye glitch.

IMO you train yourself and make adjustment "around" what you see (regardless of sport or activity). Just like someone mentioned or asked why is it that some people become so good with an obvious lack of fundaments, well it's because they only had to make a slight adjustment on the end part but knew that their actions remained the same so no need to mess with that and try to control all those parts. Again JMO
 
vacation

vacation

Living Good.
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I'm sure you'll get more educated answers than what I have to say, but I shoot with my chin over my cue, something I probably picked up from watching snooker. Recently my cue has started (without my even realizing it) drifted to the left side of my chin, and I think it's greatly improved my potting.

If you watch enough snooker and listen to the commentary, I think you'll hear/see that it's not unusual. They're still keeping down on their cue as much as possibly, but with the cue to the side. Try doing an image search of Mark Allen cuing up.
 
P

pdcue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
7forlife said:
So it feels to me that many aspect of pool are part of the "modern" era pool, also you have people relying on equipment of others in hopes of playing like them (i guess). Oh what shaft is he using, what stick, tip, aiming system and now dominant eye.

So my question is do snooker players believe in it, again not new players per say but those from a few years ago and back. They have always practiced (or preached) "Cue on the chin, GET THAT CUE ON YOU CHIN MAGGOT" which would not help with that now would it. So are most of the snooker player neutral with their eyes, are the ones who "make it" so to say neutral eyed or do they keep that part of the game a constant and then just train to "see what they see" and make the adjustment there.
i.e. keep a neutral head position but aim just a hair to the left or right to make up for the eye glitch.

IMO you train yourself and make adjustment "around" what you see (regardless of sport or activity). Just like someone mentioned or asked why is it that some people become so good with an obvious lack of fundaments, well it's because they only had to make a slight adjustment on the end part but knew that their actions remained the same so no need to mess with that and try to control all those parts. Again JMO
Click to expand...

If you check snooker instruction facilities they pretty consistently recommend putting
the shaft under your dominant eye, though they favor the term 'master' eye,
Brits, you know. Of course, many a champion has it elsewhere.

Just a bit of FYI - Though it may well be new to you, consideration of dominant eye is far from new -
I know people who say they were concerned with it 60 years ago. I imagine it goes back well beyond that time
 
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Colin Colenso

Colin Colenso

AzB Silver Member
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Some observations and thoughts:

One of the big advantages of snooker chin on cue alignment is that it generates a pretty consistent eye position relative to cue alignment. That said, it makes vision of cut angle alignment more challenging at times. This is provided the cue touches the near the same exact position on the chin and the head is at the same angle.

I've noticed many more pro snooker players play with cue near to or directly under a dominant eye, usually cross-hand-eye (right cue arm, left eye) than 15+ years ago, where many played with the cue more between the eyes.

I believe, that the dominant eye doesn't gift one perfect perception, though on some angles it may at times, but it is a stronger base of referral. We need to adapt to aiming error tendencies, and using a stronger dominant eye is a better reference point.

Colin
 
nfuids

nfuids

eh?
Silver Member
I too think the important thing is to have a vision center. That is, set up a straight shot, and move your head around until you see the shot straight.

Since you know the shot is straight, it is easier to move your head until your perception says the shot is straight. That is the place your head should be for all shots.

This is the place your head needs to be to see a straight line.

Once you can do that most of the time, you will see it's easier to shot the shot you intented to shot, what ever the cut angle is.
 
boogeyman

boogeyman

AzB Silver Member
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dr_dave said:
There are advantages to having the chin close to the cue.

However, for best results, your head should also be positioned left/right in your personal vision center position.

Check out the links,
Dave
Click to expand...

Ya know, dr. dave?
There are so many players who don't even know what you mean by 'personal vision center position.'
If those same people knew how to find it, they would play soooo much better.

There are so many instructors that don't even consider this part of aiming.
Hell, it's THE prerequisite to aiming any shot!

Thanks for brining up that concept again.
 
B

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
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I've always been skeptical about the importance of eye dominance and even about the importance of Dr. Dave's personal vision center.

I think the most important thing is to be consistent and approach the shot the same way every time. I think our brain can take care of the rest if we give it a chance.

Watch this short video to see how powerful the brain can be when it comes to our vision.

https://youtu.be/eA2d1tKNFoU
 
Jude Rosenstock

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
nfuids said:
I too think the important thing is to have a vision center. That is, set up a straight shot, and move your head around until you see the shot straight.

Since you know the shot is straight, it is easier to move your head until your perception says the shot is straight. That is the place your head should be for all shots.

This is the place your head needs to be to see a straight line.

Once you can do that most of the time, you will see it's easier to shot the shot you intented to shot, what ever the cut angle is.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I'm not an expert in how the brain processes visual information but I do know that "dominant eye" is probably analyzed a little too much. For one, your dominant eye while observing a distant object may be your right eye but you might use your left eye for pool. As well, most people will favor one eye depending on where an object falls in their field of vision. If it's on the left, they focus with the left eye. If it's on the right, they focus with their right. There are also the rare few that don't really have a dominant eye and focus on objects with both eyes (though I know very very little about these people other than that they exist). I happen to fall into a group called cross-eyed dominance. I'm right-handed and left eye dominant. It's common among lefties, less so among righties and some argue that this is why left-handed hitters in baseball are better but I would imagine that has more to do with the advantage they have against right-handed pitchers rather than eye dominance.

For pool, the cue-ball should appear directly in front of you. Your shaft should appear directly below you. How that aligns with your eyes and chin is totally personal preference. If you try and force yourself to use a different method than what your brain does naturally, I would imagine the results would be bad.
 
nfuids

nfuids

eh?
Silver Member
BasementDweller said:
I've always been skeptical about the importance of eye dominance and even about the importance of Dr. Dave's personal vision center.

I think the most important thing is to be consistent and approach the shot the same way every time. I think our brain can take care of the rest if we give it a chance.

Watch this short video to see how powerful the brain can be when it comes to our vision.

https://youtu.be/eA2d1tKNFoU
Click to expand...

Yeah, I would agree that the important thing is to be consistent.
I'm sure if you align your head off the center of vision, consistently, your brain will adjust overtime, but everytime you shot a shot, you won't feel it as good as if your vision center is perfect.

If you set up a straight shot, and let your head position itself as you always do, and focus on the line of shot, does it feel you're straight? If you don't feel you're straight, and fire the shot and pocket the ball, it means your brain compensated.

Imagine feeling you're straight when you actually are, it will give you a boost in confidence for cut shot, because you will feel you are on the correct line of shot. It doesn't mean you had the correct line of shot to begin with, or that you stroke as intented, but at least, your vision will match what you aim for and the brain won't have to compensate for your off-center vision.

Less brain compensation = more consistency IMHO
 
nfuids

nfuids

eh?
Silver Member
Just to be clear, I'm not saying the cue should be below your dominant eye.
What I'm saying is that your vision should tell you you're straight when you make a straight shot.

So hitting if you hit the cue ball straight across the table and it come back to your tip, your vision should tell you you're straight.
 
Wheels33

Wheels33

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jude Rosenstock said:
I agree with this. I'm not an expert in how the brain processes visual information but I do know that "dominant eye" is probably analyzed a little too much. For one, your dominant eye while observing a distant object may be your right eye but you might use your left eye for pool. As well, most people will favor one eye depending on where an object falls in their field of vision. If it's on the left, they focus with the left eye. If it's on the right, they focus with their right. There are also the rare few that don't really have a dominant eye and focus on objects with both eyes (though I know very very little about these people other than that they exist). I happen to fall into a group called cross-eyed dominance. I'm right-handed and left eye dominant. It's common among lefties, less so among righties and some argue that this is why left-handed hitters in baseball are better but I would imagine that has more to do with the advantage they have against right-handed pitchers rather than eye dominance.

For pool, the cue-ball should appear directly in front of you. Your shaft should appear directly below you. How that aligns with your eyes and chin is totally personal preference. If you try and force yourself to use a different method than what your brain does naturally, I would imagine the results would be bad.
Click to expand...



I agree. I'm in the midst of trying to figure all this out for myself, this is what I'm finding......

When I do a test for eye dominance (i.e. overlapping hands forming a small hole and then looking at a distant object) I'm very heavily left eye dominant. So, for a while I tried putting the cue closer to my left eye. I don't think that was very successful.

When I do the Dr. Dave vision center test, it brings my cue to the center of my chin.

I have a mirror with a vertical line down the middle, and lined up my cue to that line. When I get down to shoot facing into the mirror, I see two vertical lines that pass through the inside of my pupils......my chin, cue, forearm and hand all line up vertically between the two lines I see.

Between that, and Joe Tucker's 'Third Eye' gadget to find center ball (before I was always lined up too far right of true center).....it's getting me to where I can stop the cue ball dead cold on long straight in shots at about a 40% - 50% rate. (much improved, I used to always have some tiny little spin or movement on the CB)

I also notice that my stoke requires a lot less effort, things just feel more aligned and efficient.
 
nfuids

nfuids

eh?
Silver Member
exactly. Once you find your center of vision, it means you see what you actually aim for. You do not need to compensate.

After that, you need the proper execution, as mentionned by a lot of people, lots of people do not execute when they intend to, meaning that if you plan on hitting center cue ball, and you hit to the left, lots of stuff will happen (sqirt, swerve, cut induce throw, etc) that may make you think your vision was not centered.

So the test where you shoot the cue ball in between two ball on the rail and aim for the cue ball to comeback to your tip is really helpful. You may work your vision center by knowing you plan a straight show, so you move your head to see straight, and it also works your execution as you will see if you apply some unwanted sidespin while you shoot the shot.

Hope this help :)
 
Wheels33

Wheels33

AzB Silver Member
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nfuids said:
exactly. Once you find your center of vision, it means you see what you actually aim for. You do not need to compensate.

After that, you need the proper execution, as mentionned by a lot of people, lots of people do not execute when they intend to, meaning that if you plan on hitting center cue ball, and you hit to the left, lots of stuff will happen (sqirt, swerve, cut induce throw, etc) that may make you think your vision was not centered.

So the test where you shoot the cue ball in between two ball on the rail and aim for the cue ball to comeback to your tip is really helpful. You may work your vision center by knowing you plan a straight show, so you move your head to see straight, and it also works your execution as you will see if you apply some unwanted sidespin while you shoot the shot.

Hope this help :)
Click to expand...


Yes....I used to have a subtle swoop in my stroke because my eyes thought I was shooting at center ball, but my brain knew better and compensated for it by swooping my cue to make up for it.

I would swear I was lined up to center ball...and stroking the cue perfectly straight, but I could see all the flaws when I video taped myself.

My stroke was dependent on the timing of the swoop to hit true center ball successfully. Of course leaving a huge chance for error.

Just because you think your eyes and cue are lined up in a straight line for the shot doesn't necessarily mean it's true....your eyes could be playing tricks.
 
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mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv
Silver Member
Blind

Been 100 % blind in one for a couple of years.
Was blind in the other eye for about 6 months.
I have 20/20 vision now .

I shoot better now I have both eyes working.
But I got a allot more action being blind :grin:

I would think that is you are shooting and using the wrong eye to aim at your shot would be off just about the same distance as the area between your eyes:eek:

I shot competition skeet way back when I was in Japan and Philippines.
My point is the best skeet shooters in the world aim with both eyes open.
The guy who shoot 10,000 2inch x 2 inch wooden blocks with a pair of Remington nylon 66's with out missing one shot, shoots those rifles with both eyes open.

Maybe some of you guys should go skeet shooting and get your eyes tuned up.
 
P

pdcue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BasementDweller said:
I've always been skeptical about the importance of eye dominance and even about the importance of Dr. Dave's personal vision center.

I think the most important thing is to be consistent and approach the shot the same way every time. I think our brain can take care of the rest if we give it a chance.

Watch this short video to see how powerful the brain can be when it comes to our vision.

https://youtu.be/eA2d1tKNFoU
Click to expand...

Talked to any world class rifle shooters?

Dale
 
P

pdcue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
mortuarymike-nv said:
Been 100 % blind in one for a couple of years.
Was blind in the other eye for about 6 months.
I have 20/20 vision now .

I shoot better now I have both eyes working.
But I got a allot more action being blind :grin:

I would think that is you are shooting and using the wrong eye to aim at your shot would be off just about the same distance as the area between your eyes:eek:

I shot competition skeet way back when I was in Japan and Philippines.
My point is the best skeet shooters in the world aim with both eyes open.
The guy who shoot 10,000 2inch x 2 inch wooden blocks with a pair of Remington nylon 66's with out missing one shot, shoots those rifles with both eyes open.

Maybe some of you guys should go skeet shooting and get your eyes tuned up.
Click to expand...

Do you know anyone who shoots pool with one eye closed? The question I want answered is:

Where do these marksmen align the barrel of their weapon relative to their dominant eye.

ps: have you shot at many pool balls that have been launched at a zillion mph?

Dale
 
7

7forlife

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well I must say this went just as I was hoping, both sides discussing their opinions with no arguments.
Whenever I give advice or point out a players flaws to another I always say "that may work now but will fail him when he needs it most" and this is how i feel about this topic. There clearly is a lot of fact under the dominant eye thing but I also believe that you become efficient at what you practice, If putting you face all the way on the other side of he cue is what you want to do then over time you will learn what aim point works for pocketing balls, the same way you hear someone say "oh I play that with a little inside/outside/draw", that has worked for that person over time and they learned to deal with what they see. There will come a day when the shot will need to be delivered perfectly and with no outside ingredient and that is when he will fail.
 
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