Peace proposal

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
YOU said it about the dumb stuff, not I or anyone else. It only makes sense if you have an aiming system, any aiming system with a disconnect to your eyes and brain
that's not working - DROP IT LIKE A HOT POTATO AND DON'T USE IT!
It's common sense. If you don't get CTE DROP IT and THAT'S IT. No big deal.

But to illustrate how accurate and effective Poolology has been for you and to make others converts to the system, lets set up a two way shot on the table WITHOUT referring back to the GRID CHEAT SHEET, tell us what the fractional alignments are for the following shot. Remember, an aiming system with a grid is only effective if it's internalized in your brain to draw on in a matter of milliseconds.
No cheat sheets allowed in normal play.

BRIAN, YOU CAN'T ANSWER! Let the student(s) come up with it.


The CB is located 1/2 way between the left rail head diamond and end diamond 5" off the left side rail.

The right center edge of the OB will be placed 6 1/2" from the FOOT SPOT toward the left rail

WHAT FRACTION WILL BE YOUR AIM LINE AND STRIKE POINT WITH THE CB TO POCKET IT IN THE RIGHT CORNER POCKET?

WHAT FRACTION WILL BE YOUR AIM LINE AND STRIKE POINT WITH THE CB TO POCKET IT IN THE LEFT CORNER POCKET?

WHAT PART OF THE CB WILL HAVE TO BE STRIKING THE OB FRACTION LINE AND HOW IS IT ALIGNED TO DO IT BEFORE PULLING THE TRIGGER?

Don't take forever to answer because we'll all know you're using the cheat sheet.

No answer means it's not helping you as much as you claimed.

NO HELP FROM ANY OF THE PEANUT GALLERY!

Poolology is about seeing the shot. There is no visual here to see. (And Poolology does not contain a complicated "grid".)

Your shot description ("right center edge of the OB") and asking "what part of the CB will have to be striking the OB fraction line" is more confusing than anything in the Poolology book. Lol.
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
I bought the Pro One DVD set last year and I was raked over the coals on this forum for saying that I did not understand CTE at all. I go back and watch the DVD and still don't have a clue how it works. Anyway, I was able to use fractional aiming, poology (thanks BC) and SAMBA. I guess I am too dumb to understand the CTE stuff.

Tom, glad to hear my material is useful to you.

About CTE, I had the first CD and was lost also. I posted the beer bottle "perception" to show that using objects other than spheres brings the "perceptions" out of the realm of mystery. The main reason I couldn't understand a CTE perception is simple: A perception is something you sense, mentally. It's an individual thing, meaning I could perceive something differently than you perceive it. But once I realized these visuals were actually focal perspectives, not perceptions, they became real.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Poolology is about seeing the shot. There is no visual here to see. (And Poolology does not contain a complicated "grid".)

Your shot description ("right center edge of the OB") and asking "what part of the CB will have to be striking the OB fraction line" is more confusing than anything in the Poolology book. Lol.

PLEASE no explanations from you.

Let those who purchased the book give THEIR response based on perceptions and understanding.

Doesn't matter how I phrase it. They can come back with their own response. It could be the same as yours or different. Either way it's a learning process.

When somebody says a system is the greatest thing since sliced bread or the worst POS they ever came upon, it's based on what they know and understand or what they don't know and don't understand.

Let 'em fly with it and respond.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Tom, glad to hear my material is useful to you.

About CTE, I had the first CD and was lost also. I posted the beer bottle "perception" to show that using objects other than spheres brings the "perceptions" out of the realm of mystery. The main reason I couldn't understand a CTE perception is simple: A perception is something you sense, mentally. It's an individual thing, meaning I could perceive something differently than you perceive it. But once I realized these visuals were actually focal perspectives, not perceptions, they became real.

Will you quit trying to justify the use of beer bottles already! It's idiotic and everyone knows it. The only thing beer bottles are used for is to guzzle beer from or crack some bonehead over the head. NOT TO LEARN VISUALS FOR POOL!

It was a MOCKING POST! CUT THE CRAP!

You quoted MY POST and put it out there for LOU FIGUEROA for that "yuk-yuk, Ha-Ha-Ha" BONDING MOMENT that says "I love you" to Lou and I'm thinking about you". "Love me back with a witty response".
 
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Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
YOU said it about the dumb stuff, not I or anyone else. It only makes sense if you have an aiming system, any aiming system with a disconnect to your eyes and brain
that's not working - DROP IT LIKE A HOT POTATO AND DON'T USE IT!
It's common sense. If you don't get CTE DROP IT and THAT'S IT. No big deal.

But to illustrate how accurate and effective Poolology has been for you and to make others converts to the system, lets set up a two way shot on the table WITHOUT referring back to the GRID CHEAT SHEET, tell us what the fractional alignments are for the following shot. Remember, an aiming system with a grid is only effective if it's internalized in your brain to draw on in a matter of milliseconds.
No cheat sheets allowed in normal play.

BRIAN, YOU CAN'T ANSWER! Let the student(s) come up with it.


The CB is located 1/2 way between the left rail head diamond and end diamond 5" off the left side rail.

The right center edge of the OB will be placed 6 1/2" from the FOOT SPOT toward the left rail

WHAT FRACTION WILL BE YOUR AIM LINE AND STRIKE POINT WITH THE CB TO POCKET IT IN THE RIGHT CORNER POCKET?

WHAT FRACTION WILL BE YOUR AIM LINE AND STRIKE POINT WITH THE CB TO POCKET IT IN THE LEFT CORNER POCKET?

WHAT PART OF THE CB WILL HAVE TO BE STRIKING THE OB FRACTION LINE AND HOW IS IT ALIGNED TO DO IT BEFORE PULLING THE TRIGGER?

Don't take forever to answer b
ecause we'll all know you're using the cheat sheet.

No answer means it's not helping you as much as you claimed.

NO HELP FROM ANY OF THE PEANUT GALLERY!

Dude, calm down..I don't care how many times people claim CTE is simple, it's very complicated, only rivaled in complexity by the SEE system. First you have to learn to pick up the perceptions, then you have to find the line, placing your bridgehand inside that line and pivot (accurate bridgehand placing being one of the most difficult things in pool to begin with)...Not only must you learn WHICH perception is right (for which there is NO cheat sheet, but you must also know which way to pivot for each shot!) There are dozens of things that can go wrong or be misunderstood. Not only that, but CTE completely changes the way you stand, approach the shot and even align your body. If I change even my grip minutely, I need probably a week before I'm back to being comfortable. Imagine how much more difficult it is to change everything.

So Stan obviously wants to target people who are willing to invest a lot of time into their aiming, being willing to maybe do worse for months (especially if they are allready good, as any dropoff will be more noticable) before they finally see improvement, or quicker if they are lucky or unusually perceptive. Remember that probably 99% will have to do the work alone, without special private lessons etc.. That is all OK. What is not ok is biting the heads off people who do not understand the system. If I were to give a private lesson in Chemistry or Math or whatever subject and they didn't understand what I presented and didn't seem interested in pursuing more lessons, there are three possible things that I as a Tutor could conclude after trying multiple approaches:

1. This material is over his/her head
2. My presentation/teaching skills are bad
3. The student lacks work ethic.

Neither of these conclusions should lead to going off in a fit of rage. Only a refund (if I was feeling generous), a handshake and an "ok".
 
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stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I bought the Pro One DVD set last year and I was raked over the coals on this forum for saying that I did not understand CTE at all. I go back and watch the DVD and still don't have a clue how it works. Anyway, I was able to use fractional aiming, poology (thanks BC) and SAMBA. I guess I am too dumb to understand the CTE stuff.

Your word is no good here. You trashed my work. And to back your trashing, you lied. You said that you received 29 PMs supporting your position that CTE PRO ONE does not work. That is a flat out lie, Buddy.
I want to repeat it again. YOU are A LIAR! There's not a person on this forum that believed you were sent 29pms for your support. I called your bluff on it then and you had ample opportunity to prove yourself not be a liar. You backpeddled out.

Stan Shuffett
 
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SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Dude, calm down..

Neither of these conclusions should lead to going off in a fit of rage. Only a refund (if I was feeling generous), a handshake and an "ok".

Why do you keep jumping in here telling me what I should do, what I shouldn't do, or how I feel.

I'm sitting here as cool and relaxed as I can be drinking my morning cups of coffee.

You're the one sitting God knows where in Europe or elsewhere judging that I'm in a fit of rage.

You wanted discussion about aiming systems the other day. I presented one to the poster about poolology fractional aiming.

Stan Shuffett started a thread a couple days ago with videos and verbal explanations of a VERY SIMPLE AIMING SYSTEM, Shiskebob.

You never chimed in or showed up. It was exactly what you asked for. But here you are judging and running your mouth in here.

Seems to me you're the one in a rage based on your misconceptions of how I feel.

Either participate or don't.

Do YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF POOLOLOGY? Set up the shots and comment.

Do YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF SHISKEBOB? Set up the shots and comment.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Will you quit trying to justify the use of beer bottles already! It's idiotic and everyone knows it. The only thing beer bottles are used for is to guzzle beer from or crack some bonehead over the head. NOT TO LEARN VISUALS FOR POOL!

It was a MOCKING POST! CUT THE CRAP!

You quoted MY POST and put it out there for LOU FIGUEROA for that "yuk-yuk, Ha-Ha-Ha" BONDING MOMENT that says "I love you" to Lou and I'm thinking about you". "Love me back with a witty response".

No justification needed. Realizing these visual "perceptions' we're simply visual "perspectives" made it much easier to understand. Sphere perspectives are difficult to visualize. But once I thought about the fact that we don't really aim using the whole sphere, but with the equators, I saw two circles -- two 2D objects. Then I thought it could help others see that there is no mysterious visual phenomena going on when it comes to CTE perceptions. The rest of the process is still a mystery until Stan's book comes out. And that's how it should be.....Great secrets shouldn't be free.
 
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stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tom, glad to hear my material is useful to you.

About CTE, I had the first CD and was lost also. I posted the beer bottle "perception" to show that using objects other than spheres brings the "perceptions" out of the realm of mystery. The main reason I couldn't understand a CTE perception is simple: A perception is something you sense, mentally. It's an individual thing, meaning I could perceive something differently than you perceive it. But once I realized these visuals were actually focal perspectives, not perceptions, they became real.

I get tired of your knocking.
On the back of your book it says

MASTER THE ART OF AIMING AND NEVER MISS ANOTHER SHOT.
What a load of shit!

You also say in your book:
Poolology uses the 4 quarters and then the 8ths and then you have to use your own feel the rest of the way.

What a joke!

Stan Shuffett
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
No justification needed. Realizing these visual "perceptions' we're simply visual "perspectives" made it much easier to understand. Sphere perspectives are difficult to visualize. But once I thought about the fact that we don't really aim using the whole sphere, but with the equators, I saw two circles -- two 2D objects. Then I thought it could help others see that there is no mysterious visual phenomena going on when it comes to CTE perceptions. The rest of the process is still a mystery until Stan's book cones out. And that's how it should be. Great secrets shouldn't be free.

Since the beginning of time when pool was created, neither in real life - book instructions - or video instructions has anyone at any time used BEER BOTTLES as a VISUAL PERCEPTION. NEVER!

IT was a MOCKING POST specifically to LOU, not the rest of the forum.

Stop it already with this beer bottle garbage.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
I get tired of your knocking.
On the back of your book it says

MASTER THE ART OF AIMING AND NEVER MISS ANOTHER SHOT.
What a load of shit!

You also say in your book:
Poolology uses the 4 quarters and then the 8ths and then you have to use your own feel the rest of the way.

What a joke!

Stan Shuffett

I'm not knocking anything. In fact, I'm probably helping someone else finally figure some things out.

Nice review of my material so far, very professional comments.

If a player masters the art of aiming they could very well never miss another shot, whether they master fractional aiming, Samba, Shishkabob, or CTE. That's actually a load of solid inspiration.

As far as subdividing the quarter fractions and enabling a sense of freedom, a sense of feel, well that's good also. Instead if making it a complicated process, it simplifies the process. Imagine how mediocre Joe Bonamassa would be today if when he was 10 years old a guitar instructor would've told him, "Listen, Joey, there's only one way to play the guitar professionally. There's only 8 musical notes with a few sharps and flats, and all the melodies that exists now are all there is. I don't won't you playing by feel, making up your own techniques and shortcuts to playing guitar. My method is the only way."

Pool is no different. Developing an individual feel for certain shots is an absolute necessity regardless of which aiming system one learns from or employs full-time.
 
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Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
Why do you keep jumping in here telling me what I should do, what I shouldn't do, or how I feel.

I'm sitting here as cool and relaxed as I can be drinking my morning cups of coffee.

You're the one sitting God knows where in Europe or elsewhere judging that I'm in a fit of rage.

You wanted discussion about aiming systems the other day. I presented one to the poster about poolology fractional aiming.

Stan Shuffett started a thread a couple days ago with videos and verbal explanations of a VERY SIMPLE AIMING SYSTEM, Shiskebob.

You never chimed in or showed up. It was exactly what you asked for. But here you are judging and running your mouth in here.

Seems to me you're the one in a rage based on your misconceptions of how I feel.

Either participate or don't.

Do YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF POOLOLOGY? Set up the shots and comment.

Do YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF SHISKEBOB? Set up the shots and comment.

Well, I'm sorry but now you are being completely unreasonable (regarding SHISHKEBOB)! How can I possibly comment on a system when Stan left all the important info out?! No specifics on bridgehand or even the pivot, lol and now you expect me to comment on it. Look to the inside (turn nose in) and pivot to center, lol. That's awesome:rolleyes:. As Stan himself said, it's not laid out anywhere else either! I'm going to assume that there are several alignments (center, quarter and edge to start as only center and quarter are mentioned) I also noticed that Stan's pivot was quite small, so I guess I'll use that info as well. I could also observe that he seems to only pivot in one direction and that would be the logical thing being that he uses one approach with the nose. I couldn't stand the slow pace and off topic babbeling of the video so you'll have to forgive me if I missed something. I mostly tried to observe as there was no structure to the verbal presentation. I wasn't going to say anything, but you forced my hand.

I'll give my review on Shishkebob later after trying it. I'm also going to try the exact reverse of Stans instructions (nose out, pivot in) to see if that makes ANY difference to the pocketing at all.

As for poolology, I think the cheat sheet is the point of the system. So without it it's just feeling the five angle cut system. So all you're actually testing with your challenge is the feel of the individual in question.
 
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SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Imagine how mediocre Joe Bonamassa would be today if when he was 10 years old a guitar instructor would've told him, "Listen, Joey, there's only one way to play the guitar professionally. There's only 8 musical notes with a few sharps and flats, and all the melodies that exists now are all there is. I don't won't you playing by feel, making up your own techniques and shortcuts to playing guitar. My method is the only way."

It couldn't possibly have happened because at 10 years of age Joe Bonamassa was already playing better than any guitar instructor out there and even YOU today.

Joe was a CHILD PRODIGY. So was Willie Mosconi. His father owned a pool room. "In 1919, an exhibition match was arranged between six-year-old Mosconi and the reigning World Champion, Ralph Greenleaf. The hall was packed, and though Greenleaf won that match, Mosconi played well enough to draw considerable attention and launch his professional career."

Beethoven made his first public appearance at age 7 1/2. CHILD PRODIGY. Exceptions to the rule of learning and teaching.

Here is Joe Bonamassa at 12 years of age: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLB900atJFs

He was playing a Blues guitar since age 5:

Video #2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvHEyAnS0bs
 
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SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Well, I'm sorry but now you are being completely unreasonable (regarding SHISHKEBOB)! How can I possibly comment on a system when Stan left all the important info out?!

He absolutely did not leave anything out for the shots demonstrated. What he left out is for more acute shot angles which WILL be addressed and taught in another video around Book Release time.

No specifics on bridgehand or even the pivot, lol and now you expect me to comment on it.

He said what to do about the original offset and pivot. If you think bridgehand is a key then figure it out for yourself by experimenting.

Look to the inside (turn nose in) and pivot to center, lol. That's awesome:rolleyes:.

Yep, he was right on the "nose" because that's how simple the system is.

As Stan himself said, it's not laid out anywhere else either! I'm going to assume that there are several alignments (center, quarter and edge to start as only center and quarter are mentioned)

Reading comprehension problems or understanding the video?
Those will be explained and taught in video #2 at book release.


I also noticed that Stan's pivot was quite small, so I guess I'll use that info as well.

Do you think for some reason there's a big pivot? It IS a small pivot. Tip size can matter and he states it. There's a big pivot in 90/90 but I guess you have no knowledge of that one either.

I could also observe that he seems to only pivot in one direction and that would be the logical thing being that he uses one approach with the nose.

With pure shiskebob that's the case.

I couldn't stand the slow pace and off topic babbeling of the video so you'll have to forgive me if I missed something.

I guess he should have ripped it out rapidly so everything goes screaming over everyone's head like an F-18 at full throttle just to please you.

Let's see your video style as you explain anything you wish about pool


I mostly tried to observe as there was no structure to the verbal presentation. I wasn't going to say anything, but you forced my hand.

Can I force your hand to make a video yourself or are you only a one way complainer?

I'll give my review on Shishkebob later after trying it. I'm also going to try the exact reverse of Stans instructions (nose out, pivot in) to see if that makes ANY difference to the pocketing at all.

Yeah right. That makes all the sense in the world for a review.

As for poolology, I think the cheat sheet is the point of the system. So without it it's just feeling the five angle cut system. So all you're actually testing with your challenge is the feel of the individual in question.

So I guess they need to bring the cheat sheet with them every place they go, right. That will be great for fast play. No, I'm testing their knowledge, understanding, and ability to put it to use under actual playing conditions.

If they can't, they must be reverting to something else that isn't poolology.
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
It couldn't possibly have happened because at 10 years of age Joe Bonamassa was already playing better than any guitar instructor out there and even YOU today.

Joe was a CHILD PRODIGY.

Here is at 12 years of age: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLB900atJFs

I realize this. There isn't much I don't know about Bonamassa. I was making a simple point pool that pool is art. Players should have a goal of becoming more artistic rather than systematic. But of course, unless you're a child prodigy, a systematic process can provide a path to becoming more artistic. Players just have to have the freedom to feel their way around the edges of whatever system process they're using.

Good artists are those that know and understand the technical aspects of their art. Great artists are those that learn to move beyond technicalities by developing their own feel, their own artistic expression.

My grandma loved those paint-by-numbers canvases, particularly the ones with horses and covered wagons. She was not a great artist, but the potential was there. Instead of always depending on that patchwork of numbers and lines, she could've tried painting on a blank canvas. I'm sure she'd painted enough with numbers that she probably could've produced a decent painting from scratch. And afterwords, standing back to admire her work, she'd notice certain lines or brush strokes that weren't quite right. So she'd try again, and again, and again.....focusing at first on the technicalities of painting (the exact brush strokes, lighting and perspective). Eventually she'd have shifted gears, leaving all that behind, developing her individual form of expressing based on her ability to visualize what she was imagining on the canvas in front of her.

A bit romanticised, but this is what I mean in my book when I say a pool player should develope his/her own feel for pocketing balls.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
I realize this. There isn't much I don't know about Bonamassa. I was making a simple point pool that pool is art. Players should have a goal of becoming more artistic rather than systematic.

At what level of achievement in pool might one consider becoming more artistic rather than systematic? After how many years of playing and what age?

Where does pool rank as a focus of importance and improvement in their lives compared to everything else?

If they don't have pool tables in their home and play everyday, wouldn't going occasionally to a pool room and telling them to be more artistic rather than systematic be putting the cart way before the horse?

Is what you're saying good advice? Sure but only to an extremely low percent of the population and even less of a percentage when speaking to the pool population.
And if they're that good, they'll become more adventuresome, experimental, and interested in learning things on their own.
 
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SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
I was making a simple point pool that pool is art. Players should have a goal of becoming more artistic rather than systematic. But of course, unless you're a child prodigy, a systematic process can provide a path to becoming more artistic. Players just have to have the freedom to feel their way around the edges of whatever system process they're using.

A bit romanticised, but this is what I mean in my book when I say a pool player should develope his/her own feel for pocketing balls.

I posted this in the other thread. It's videos of you explaining various common shots and how to pocket the balls with poolology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryenIBwdn34

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOHgrxLvMP8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17VpeuysHcE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i-1QIWxR3Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om2qEB-tN6g

HERE'S MY QUESTIONS: What do you do see, align, and do differently to make these shots when playing that's so artistically different than what you're teaching for seeing and aligning? What do you think about and what don't you think about based on the system? Are you short cutting something or not doing it at all?

Do you think those who purchase your program will over all be more consistent and accurate using it 100% of the time or will they become less consistent and accurate by reverting to something else? Are you just as accurate and consistent when not using your system or even more accurate?

If what they're doing is very successful what can they learn on their own that will improve the consistency and accuracy from being more "artistic"?
 
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