Installing Full Threaded Pins

jollysailor · May 15, 2017

Hi all,

Would like to seek advice on procedures and pointers when installing pins such as 5/16-14, 5/16-18, 3/8-10, 3/8-11 etc which are commonly sold as fully threaded screws with no self-aligning barrels.

Is it common that there will still be very slight wobble after installation for pins like these? So far the procedures I have followed are mainly 1. Making sure butt turns straight on the lathe 2. Drill and tap 3. Ensure that drill bits used are increased in steady steps as the diameter enlarges 4. Use a boring bar to touch up the final diameter.

I have also made sure that the tail stock of the lathe is tightened properly before proceeding with the drilling. Even for the installation of the pin, I secure the pin on the tail stock and install it.

Hope to have a discussion on this.

Thanks!

CuesDirectly · May 15, 2017

jollysailor said:
Hi all,

Would like to seek advice on procedures and pointers when installing pins such as 5/16-14, 5/16-18, 3/8-10, 3/8-11 etc which are commonly sold as fully threaded screws with no self-aligning barrels.

Is it common that there will still be very slight wobble after installation for pins like these? So far the procedures I have followed are mainly 1. Making sure butt turns straight on the lathe 2. Drill and tap 3. Ensure that drill bits used are increased in steady steps as the diameter enlarges 4. Use a boring bar to touch up the final diameter.

I have also made sure that the tail stock of the lathe is tightened properly before proceeding with the drilling. Even for the installation of the pin, I secure the pin on the tail stock and install it.

Hope to have a discussion on this.

Thanks!

It could be many things.

How accurate is the lathe? Tailstocks on new import lathes are .003"-005" hi and that would cause a wobble in your methods.

Factory chucks can cause the same problems, they are not highly accurate but people make them work.

I don't know what pin you used but if you looked online for the hole diameter of a standard 3/8" thread, you were told to make the hole 5/16", that is wrong for the V-Threaded 10TPI. 5/16 is correct for a 3/8" x 16TPI but no one uses them on cues. The minor diameter of the threads are different.

Smile, it's a wonderful Monday morning.

qbilder · May 15, 2017

When I used full thread pins I'd bore the hole an inch deep so that the pin had to be pressed in with some force before reaching the internal threads. This kept the pin straight and still kept about and inch of threaded hole for the pin to lock into. Right or wrong, they never failed and it alleviated the "settling" to one side or the other.

jollysailor · May 15, 2017

qbilder said:
When I used full thread pins I'd bore the hole an inch deep so that the pin had to be pressed in with some force before reaching the internal threads. This kept the pin straight and still kept about and inch of threaded hole for the pin to lock into. Right or wrong, they never failed and it alleviated the "settling" to one side or the other.

qbilder, this is a similar concept to self aligning pins right? Just that you are applying the same technique on the cue itself.

Canadian cue · May 15, 2017

qbilder said:
When I used full thread pins I'd bore the hole an inch deep so that the pin had to be pressed in with some force before reaching the internal threads. This kept the pin straight and still kept about and inch of threaded hole for the pin to lock into. Right or wrong, they never failed and it alleviated the "settling" to one side or the other.

I use the same technique. The things you can do to minimize runout is using a carbide drill or brad point also work well. You can invest in a piloted tap. You can have a perfect hole but because your tapping into wood grain your tap is going to have a tendency to wander.

Michael Webb · May 15, 2017

Before the uni loc boom in the early 90's. I never saw screws with a solid shank on them. The first radials were threaded all the way. People had trouble installing them so uni loc added the shank to make installing them easier. Some of the manufacturer's followed suit. But anyways, after installing an all threaded screw, put it between centers and check with an indicator. Pretty simple.

Kim Bye · May 15, 2017

I would just like to remind you that 5/16-14, 5/16-18 and .302" minor 3/8-10 pins do exist with self aligning barrel

jollysailor · May 15, 2017

Kim Bye said:
I would just like to remind you that 5/16-14, 5/16-18 and .302" minor 3/8-10 pins do exist with self aligning barrel

Yes Kim Bye, I am aware of that. Probably will invest in those in the future when my stocks run out.

jollysailor · May 15, 2017

Michael Webb said:
Before the uni loc boom in the early 90's. I never saw screws with a solid shank on them. The first radials were threaded all the way. People had trouble installing them so uni loc added the shank to make installing them easier. Some of the manufacturer's followed suit. But anyways, after installing an all threaded screw, put it between centers and check with an indicator. Pretty simple.

Hi Michael, thanks for sharing. Pardon me, but what do you mean by "put it between centers"?

Michael Webb · May 15, 2017

jollysailor said:
Hi Michael, thanks for sharing. Pardon me, but what do you mean by "put it between centers"?

After you install the screw. Put the cue between centers. (concave and pointed) check with an indicator and lightly tap to bring to zero. Not everyone likes a shanked screw and uses them. This part is a big can of worms.

qbilder · May 15, 2017

You should also avoid tightening the pin. Once it hits the bottom of the threads, it will tweak to one side or the other, causing the pin to tilt off center.

jollysailor · May 15, 2017

Michael Webb said:
After you install the screw. Put the cue between centers. (concave and pointed) check with an indicator and lightly tap to bring to zero. Not everyone likes a shanked screw and uses them. This part is a big can of worms.

ohhh... those centers. The concave, a small concave center?

cueman · May 15, 2017

To those who bore and tap for a pressed fit to a threaded pin, I am failing to follow this one as the taps are larger than the pin by a few thousandths and if tapped the outside of the threads are still there in the bored hole so how does that keep the pin from going over into those threads. Please explain if you don't mind.

Canadian cue · May 15, 2017

cueman said:
To those who bore and tap for a pressed fit to a threaded pin, I am failing to follow this one as the taps are larger than the pin by a few thousandths and if tapped the outside of the threads are still there in the bored hole so how does that keep the pin from going over into those threads. Please explain if you don't mind.

If you tap your hole after you bored it out the tap will only be cutting through a few thou of material for the first inch and has way less of a chance of wandering off. I usually do a size on size fit rather than a press. If you bored your hole after tapping then yes it would probably be off.

Michael Webb · May 15, 2017

cueman said:
To those who bore and tap for a pressed fit to a threaded pin, I am failing to follow this one as the taps are larger than the pin by a few thousandths and if tapped the outside of the threads are still there in the bored hole so how does that keep the pin from going over into those threads. Please explain if you don't mind.

Hi Chris
It really helps if you know the minor of your screws. Having the proper tap is also a big plus.
Ex.
Standard 3/8x10. Great joint screw btw. If made by jan mfg, it has a .281 minor. I had a correct tap made. My inventory is ridiculous when I look at the money I've spent of taps. 5 taps for 3/8x10 alone. Depends on where you buy the screws. But it is what it is. I prefer all threaded screws and I'm in good company with some of my friends. I don't like shank screws. I never did. (can of worms) I often use the uni loc quick release and I modify the original screw and add more threads to them to compromise with my beliefs. Joe Porper was one of the first besides uni loc who's joint screw 3/8x10 also had a shank but it was not real long. The rest was threaded. His logic actually made sense to me. Good job Mr. Porper.

Mcues · May 15, 2017

Threaded pins

Make sure your drill bits are sharp(carbide will last a lifetime, really a must have) using a boring bar for final sizing is a good procedure but only if done correctly and if not, it can be the source of your problems.

Mario

conetip · May 15, 2017

I have the taps modified with the OD being reduced to suite the threaded rod od closer. Ideally the tap wants to be closer on the effective diameters being a lot closer than they are. Threaded rod is often made very close to the threads lower limit with the tap being made close to the threads upper limit. I piloted tap or live threading will aid is getting the thread form concentric to the hole, and boring ensures the hole is concentric to the run of the work piece. Live threading has the advantage of making the effective thread diameter to suite the pin being used. There are also other ways to create a piloted section on the threaded rod as well that will match a bored diameter in the front of the handle as well. You can also turn the very front of the pin that goes into the handle and make that a pilot so it is effectively supported in 2 places. Just needs some thinking and extra time to create but is very doable. The most important part about the piece of threaded rod, is that it is actually a straight piece and not a piece that has come from bent stock.

captainjko · May 15, 2017

qbilder said:
When I used full thread pins I'd bore the hole an inch deep so that the pin had to be pressed in with some force before reaching the internal threads. This kept the pin straight and still kept about and inch of threaded hole for the pin to lock into. Right or wrong, they never failed and it alleviated the "settling" to one side or the other.

So what did / do you do for the shaft? It has to be tapped...

qbilder · May 15, 2017

captainjko said:
So what did / do you do for the shaft? It has to be tapped...

Nothing special. Eliminating the "settle" on one component was better than neither, but it still didn't make me happy. Ultimately I began making my own pins with a flat minor & alignment barrel. That fixed all of the issues I had, so I had them copied & produced in bulk.

captainjko · May 15, 2017

qbilder said:
Nothing special. Eliminating the "settle" on one component was better than neither, but it still didn't make me happy. Ultimately I began making my own pins with a flat minor & alignment barrel. That fixed all of the issues I had, so I had them copied & produced in bulk.

And do you sell the pins and a tap for the pin?

Installing Full Threaded Pins

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