Adjusting from LD shaft to solid maple shaft.

iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was at Whole Foods today eating lamb and playing on their pool tables. I haven't used a regular squirt cue in years, and gave it a good go to see how I could adjust.

I set up a bunch of standard spin shots, and shot them a bunch of times each. Man, everything is about a 1/2 ball aim difference it seems to me. Wow!

I'm sure I could re-learn to play with a regular cue, but after 20 years of Predator shafts, I can't find single reason "to me" to do that. I could see the exact same viewpoint from those who have played standard deflection shafts for the past 20 years.
 
Jaden

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
Do a search for using the with ld

BigBoof said:
I have found the pivot to be too far back with LD shafts to use BHE. If I pivot at my comfortable bridge, I find the cue ball hitting to the same side as I'm hitting, like it is deflecting backwards.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I created a thread or two detailing how to easily use any length bridge with bhe that is easily useable with ld

Jaden
 
Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
I set up a bunch of standard spin shots, and shot them a bunch of times each. Man, everything is about a 1/2 ball aim difference it seems to me. Wow!

I'm sure I could re-learn to play with a regular cue, but after 20 years of Predator shafts, I can't find single reason "to me" to do that. I could see the exact same viewpoint from those who have played standard deflection shafts for the past 20 years.
Click to expand...

This is touching in on exactly the point I was attempting to make. To each their own. You don't need me telling you what is good or bad for you, as you can decide just fine for yourself. My overall point was that now that you have begun to quantify the difference between your Predator shaft & a standard shaft, have you pitted your Predator shaft against other Predator shafts, especially the same exact model & size you have? I'd bet you'd be equally amazed at the spectrum you see, with some being significantly lower deflection than others. Furthermore, had you pitted a variety of "standard" shafts against one another and your Predator, you'd see the same fluctuations, perhaps even see an overlap where certain "standard" shafts outperform LD shafts.

Case in point, my shafts are all made exactly the same way, using the exact same taper shape & exact same ferrule material. They're all 13mm. A 3.5oz piece of shaft wood will deflect noticeably less than a 4.5oz piece, given all else is equal. In fact, even though there is no LD technology applied, a 3.5oz shaft of mine will likely have less deflection than many 4oz LD shafts. This is where things get foggy because even though the standard shaft technically performs with less deflection than a shaft designed and marketed to be LD, most players would never realize it, let alone acknowledge or accept it. However, if I tell folks that i designed it to be LD, they'll eat it up like it's the best thing since sliced bread. A lot of what people think about shafts is biased by the power of suggestion. You obviously tested your LD shaft against what I would assume is a house cue, and noted the difference. What would you have thought if the house cue deflected a half ball less than your Predator? Just some food for thought......
 
KRJ

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
qbilder said:
This is touching in on exactly the point I was attempting to make. To each their own. You don't need me telling you what is good or bad for you, as you can decide just fine for yourself. My overall point was that now that you have begun to quantify the difference between your Predator shaft & a standard shaft, have you pitted your Predator shaft against other Predator shafts, especially the same exact model & size you have? I'd bet you'd be equally amazed at the spectrum you see, with some being significantly lower deflection than others. Furthermore, had you pitted a variety of "standard" shafts against one another and your Predator, you'd see the same fluctuations, perhaps even see an overlap where certain "standard" shafts outperform LD shafts.

Case in point, my shafts are all made exactly the same way, using the exact same taper shape & exact same ferrule material. They're all 13mm. A 3.5oz piece of shaft wood will deflect noticeably less than a 4.5oz piece, given all else is equal. In fact, even though there is no LD technology applied, a 3.5oz shaft of mine will likely have less deflection than many 4oz LD shafts. This is where things get foggy because even though the standard shaft technically performs with less deflection than a shaft designed and marketed to be LD, most players would never realize it, let alone acknowledge or accept it. However, if I tell folks that i designed it to be LD, they'll eat it up like it's the best thing since sliced bread. A lot of what people think about shafts is biased by the power of suggestion. You obviously tested your LD shaft against what I would assume is a house cue, and noted the difference. What would you have thought if the house cue deflected a half ball less than your Predator? Just some food for thought......
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I don't think many care how you designed it. If it deflects less than my OB, We're interested. Spending $200 for shaft either way. Though, I don't think my OB weights 4oz, I suspect it's closer to 3.75. I will weigh it tonight just to find out.
 
Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
ChicagoRJ said:
I don't think many care how you designed it. If it deflects less than my OB, We're interested. Spending $200 for shaft either way. Though, I don't think my OB weights 4oz, I suspect it's closer to 3.75. I will weigh it tonight just to find out.
Click to expand...

Oh I'm not advertising or lobbying for interest in my cues/shafts. I was only using my own shafts as an example to make a point. It's funny you mention OB, though.

Royce & I had an ongoing conversation about shaft density and deflection. We debated the topic for several years. Eventually he did some testing/experimenting and the conversation turned to how he could source enough quality shaft wood to maintain a production line of LD shafts that were solid, no holes in the end and no laminated wood. He figured something out, had a eureka moment, and decided he wanted to run a new line of solid shafts. The last conversation I had with him was several hours long. He stayed late at work to call me about sourcing maple. He explained the plan to me, how it worked, that it does work well, but wasn't sure he could get enough quality wood to make it happen on mass scale. He was ready to buy 10,000 shaft blanks to start. Sadly, we lost him soon after & I have no idea what ever came of the idea. I don't know if or with whom he shared what he had figured out, besides myself. I would have assume he did. Either way, the questions I have been asking in this thread stem from the conversations I had with Royce, and knowing that he had figured something out. Ever since then I have been curious to know how many cues are LD without being specifically designed to be. They just are by default due to density, or lack thereof.
 
Rackattach

Rackattach

Banned
Get yourself a Merry Widow and 2 nice old growth maple shafts that are relatively similar and slap some milk dud tips on them and just "play" the game. Enjoy the game, don't worry about the cue. Have fun, otherwise you'll become a tinkerer and never grow your game.
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
qbilder said:
This is touching in on exactly the point I was attempting to make. To each their own. You don't need me telling you what is good or bad for you, as you can decide just fine for yourself. My overall point was that now that you have begun to quantify the difference between your Predator shaft & a standard shaft, have you pitted your Predator shaft against other Predator shafts, especially the same exact model & size you have? I'd bet you'd be equally amazed at the spectrum you see, with some being significantly lower deflection than others. Furthermore, had you pitted a variety of "standard" shafts against one another and your Predator, you'd see the same fluctuations, perhaps even see an overlap where certain "standard" shafts outperform LD shafts.

Case in point, my shafts are all made exactly the same way, using the exact same taper shape & exact same ferrule material. They're all 13mm. A 3.5oz piece of shaft wood will deflect noticeably less than a 4.5oz piece, given all else is equal. In fact, even though there is no LD technology applied, a 3.5oz shaft of mine will likely have less deflection than many 4oz LD shafts. This is where things get foggy because even though the standard shaft technically performs with less deflection than a shaft designed and marketed to be LD, most players would never realize it, let alone acknowledge or accept it. However, if I tell folks that i designed it to be LD, they'll eat it up like it's the best thing since sliced bread. A lot of what people think about shafts is biased by the power of suggestion. You obviously tested your LD shaft against what I would assume is a house cue, and noted the difference. What would you have thought if the house cue deflected a half ball less than your Predator? Just some food for thought......
Click to expand...

I agree with you completely. To each his own:)

I actually have played maybe 15 predator shafts over the years (In my younger days I used to break them when angry, ha ha..... break free for 10 years!). Ive had 314 (all logos), Z1, Z2, 314-2, 29", and 30" versions of them all. To me, they all aimed about the same. I could play with them each easily without really thinking about aiming differently.

Anyway, we all see this game in our own minds.
 
K

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
qbilder said:
To be clear, I am neither here nor there with an opinion on LD vs standard, and for good reason. The effects of LD are undeniable & absolute, but to what end & what extreme? It's impossible to eliminate deflection, and deflection progressively becomes higher as you move farther from center ball. A player who rarely or never uses side spin will see little or no difference in the way of accuracy between a standard & LD shaft. A guy often using extreme side spin will notice the biggest difference, whether he likes LD or not. From my perspective, the way deflection factors into a player's game is very personal & individual.
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Eric,
I agree with most all of what you say except one thing: for a person who stays near center ball, and LD shaft may actually net a significant benefit. This is because since no one hits the cueball exactly where they intend 100% of the time, and honestly novice players will be all over the place, they might be missing a whole bunch of balls in which they intended to hit center but actually hit a tip of right, for example. They will miss by a lot on a long shot with a standard deflection shaft, but may still make the ball with LD. Something to consider.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
KRJ

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Rackattach said:
Get yourself a Merry Widow and 2 nice old growth maple shafts that are relatively similar and slap some milk dud tips on them and just "play" the game. Enjoy the game, don't worry about the cue. Have fun, otherwise you'll become a tinkerer and never grow your game.
Click to expand...


So, don't worry about the cue, just make sure it's a Merry Widow, has 2 old growth shafts, and a milk dud tip? Ummmm, that's kinda worrying about the cue.

So, in that case, why not buy a nice OB merry widow, keep the stock tip, and play the game ;)
 
JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
Come on! Whole Foods with pool tables???? I do see a lot of "healthy-looking" people shopping there but where are the pool tables. Pics or it didn't happen.

JoeyA
 
lfigueroa

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
TheDirtyBird said:
I've been playing pool for about 2 1/2 years now. I'm not the greatest player, but I'm trying to get better. I only play APA, and I'm a 5 in 8-ball and a 6 in 9-ball. I've gone through several cues in the past couple years (11 to be exact. lol) trying to find the cue that I feel is for me. My first was a Poison Black Widow that I wanted so my wife got it for Christmas. From there I've owned a Viking, 3 Lucasis, 3 Predators, a Jacoby, a Schon, and now I have a Pechauer. Almost all of them I had a low deflection shaft with except for the Jacoby came with a solid maple shaft, though I was quick to buy a predator shaft for it and never took the time to play with the maple shaft. I did however like the feel of the solid shaft when I did hit with it a few times. It felt a lot better and more solid with better feedback than all the low deflection shafts. I'm in the process of purchasing a Diveney Sneaky Pete and plan on making it my primary shooter. A friend of mine has a Diveney cue and I love it. It hits and feels amazing. My big concern is teaching myself to adjust to the added deflection that is going to come with a solid shaft. Anyone else go from LD to solid maple? How long did it take to adjust your game and aiming? I know it will be different for everyone, just wanting to get some opinions and feedback.
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I grew up playing with solid maple shafts with ivory ferrules. But I also believe in the potential of new technology.

So when the first Predator cues came out I bought one, and eventually another shaft, and played exclusively with the 314s for a couple of years. Then one day, after playing poorly, I switched back to one of my maple and ivory shafts and never looked back. It was a case of a solid, satisfying hit vs hitting the ball with a wet noodle.

How long did a full adjustment take... maybe like a couple of weeks.

Having said all that, play with what feels good to you and stick with it. Learn to play the instrument, don't let the instrument play you.

Lou Figueroa
 
THam

THam

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Did the Schon not come with a solid maple shaft? My opinion is pick a cue and stick with it.
 
androd

androd

androd
Silver Member
MitchAlsup said:
I can tell you that after playing with a 314-1 for several years, it took me about 6 weeks to get my head fully around a Z2 (on the same butt.) At home on my table, they felt pretty much the same, but at league, when under pressure, and when you had to get some juice on the CB I would miss a lot of shots I should not have.

You just have to let your muscle memory fully adjust and accept that your game will change for the better after those things you can't control get cemented in.
Click to expand...

I also switched to an Ld/Hd ? it also took about 6 weeks to learn to bank again, takes about twice as much spin with the Ld.
Straight ins were no problem.
Rod.
 
J

josesoria748

New member
KRJ said:
You must be one of those world beaters I've read so much about. LD is as much hype as a non LD maple shaft. One says it deflects less and one says it will deflect more. They are both right, no?
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If you know how to play a damn house cue will do the job. Pool is pool and nothing more. Put the time on the table and if you’re not running 3 packs within 5 years take up table tennis because pool is definitely not your game.😛
 
soyale

soyale

Well-known member
“if you’re not running 3 packs within 5 years take up table tennis because pool is definitely not your game”

is this a common consensus?
 
Wolven

Wolven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
josesoria748 said:
If you know how to play a damn house cue will do the job. Pool is pool and nothing more. Put the time on the table and if you’re not running 3 packs within 5 years take up table tennis because pool is definitely not your game.😛
Click to expand...
That takes out 98% of players. What else you got?
OP hasn't been on this site since 2021. Interesting if he gave up. Very curious how his transition to maple went.

Haha, I just got my answer, he was last seen buying a REVO shaft.

Once you try LD, you cannot go back.
 
Cue Alchemist

Cue Alchemist

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wolven said:
That takes out 98% of players. What else you got?
OP hasn't been on this site since 2021. Interesting if he gave up. Very curious how his transition to maple went.

Haha, I just got my answer, he was last seen buying a REVO shaft.

Once you try LD, you cannot go back.
Click to expand...
It's the way most go in today's game. CF seams to be the magic answer.
I enjoyed reading this thread. I Always think that, no matter what shaft you use.deflection is something you get use too. Yes, it can more or less depending on the type of shaft. The more you use it the easier it is!!!
It's amazing what these shafts are going for now. Crazy prices!!
 
Matt_24

Matt_24

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
TheDirtyBird said:
I've been playing pool for about 2 1/2 years now. I'm not the greatest player, but I'm trying to get better. I only play APA, and I'm a 5 in 8-ball and a 6 in 9-ball. I've gone through several cues in the past couple years (11 to be exact. lol) trying to find the cue that I feel is for me. My first was a Poison Black Widow that I wanted so my wife got it for Christmas. From there I've owned a Viking, 3 Lucasis, 3 Predators, a Jacoby, a Schon, and now I have a Pechauer. Almost all of them I had a low deflection shaft with except for the Jacoby came with a solid maple shaft, though I was quick to buy a predator shaft for it and never took the time to play with the maple shaft. I did however like the feel of the solid shaft when I did hit with it a few times. It felt a lot better and more solid with better feedback than all the low deflection shafts. I'm in the process of purchasing a Diveney Sneaky Pete and plan on making it my primary shooter. A friend of mine has a Diveney cue and I love it. It hits and feels amazing. My big concern is teaching myself to adjust to the added deflection that is going to come with a solid shaft. Anyone else go from LD to solid maple? How long did it take to adjust your game and aiming? I know it will be different for everyone, just wanting to get some opinions and feedback.
Click to expand...
Pick a cue, any cue, and stick with it. You might find one odd at first....give it a year....it'll be like a third arm. You just have to put in the time, regardless of the cue but switching all of the time is no good. I have several custom cues, but my player is my 90s Schon with a 314 shaft. If the house caught fire, I wouldn't get the SW or the QB...but the Schon. Seriously.
 
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