Adjusting from LD shaft to solid maple shaft.

T

TheDirtyBird

Registered
I've been playing pool for about 2 1/2 years now. I'm not the greatest player, but I'm trying to get better. I only play APA, and I'm a 5 in 8-ball and a 6 in 9-ball. I've gone through several cues in the past couple years (11 to be exact. lol) trying to find the cue that I feel is for me. My first was a Poison Black Widow that I wanted so my wife got it for Christmas. From there I've owned a Viking, 3 Lucasis, 3 Predators, a Jacoby, a Schon, and now I have a Pechauer. Almost all of them I had a low deflection shaft with except for the Jacoby came with a solid maple shaft, though I was quick to buy a predator shaft for it and never took the time to play with the maple shaft. I did however like the feel of the solid shaft when I did hit with it a few times. It felt a lot better and more solid with better feedback than all the low deflection shafts. I'm in the process of purchasing a Diveney Sneaky Pete and plan on making it my primary shooter. A friend of mine has a Diveney cue and I love it. It hits and feels amazing. My big concern is teaching myself to adjust to the added deflection that is going to come with a solid shaft. Anyone else go from LD to solid maple? How long did it take to adjust your game and aiming? I know it will be different for everyone, just wanting to get some opinions and feedback.
 
billiardthought

billiardthought

Anti-intellectualism
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I shot with LD for the first two years of my pool career. I switched to standard maple when I was a 6 in 8 ball and never looked back. But what I did do to soften the blow of the change was get my shafts made at about 12.5-12.6mm width and a half inch ferrule. Kept the hit of standard maple with a little less weight on the end of the shaft.

It really wasn't that bad. Spend a few nights practicing with your left and right English and you'll pick it up quick, if you want to. If you miss, aim a little more.
 
T

TheDirtyBird

Registered
billiardthought said:
I shot with LD for the first two years of my pool career. I switched to standard maple when I was a 6 in 8 ball and never looked back. But what I did do to soften the blow of the change was get my shafts made at about 12.5-12.6mm width and a half inch ferrule. Kept the hit of standard maple with a little less weight on the end of the shaft.

It really wasn't that bad. Spend a few nights practicing with your left and right English and you'll pick it up quick, if you want to. If you miss, aim a little more.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I emailed Diveney and told him that I wanted the shaft to be 12.5mm. I've been using the Predator Z3 shaft for the past year and a half, but I feel I get myself into trouble sometimes with the smaller tip by putting undesired English on the ball. I don't like the fatter 13mm tips, so I thought that 12.5 should be perfect.
 
KRJ

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
poolguy4u said:
:eek:



For your skill level and if you are playing on bar boxes, the shaft really doesn't matter much. .....You need to just play more.

Forget the all the talk about low deflection. .....It's all hype.



:rolleyes:





.
Click to expand...


You must be one of those world beaters I've read so much about. LD is as much hype as a non LD maple shaft. One says it deflects less and one says it will deflect more. They are both right, no?
 
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P

poolguy4u

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ChicagoRJ said:
You must be one of those world beaters I've read so much about. LD is as much hype as a maple cue. One says it deflects less and one says it will deflect more. They are both right, no?
Click to expand...

:killingme:



Yes I must say, my list of victims on a bar box is pretty impressive.

For myself, deflection just doesn't matter. ....I just put 'em in the hole.



.
 
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slide13

slide13

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I used to play LD and I've played solid maple as well. I've settled on 12mm solid maple as my preference these days. I find it deflects noticeably less than some of the 13mm shafts I've tried but not like the Z3 I used to play. Just a nice middle ground.

I settled on that because it just seems to naturally fit the amount of deflection my mind expects from the shot. With 13mm solid or 11.75mm LD I always felt like I had to think about it a little and adjust for the shaft I was using. When I started using 12mm solid it just felt right and the cue ball behaved as my mind expected it to. Not to say I get it right every time unfortunately, but I'm more confident now with my spin shots then I've ever been at least.
 
couldnthinkof01

couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I went from solid (joss) to z2 to jacoby hybrid 11.75 to jacoby hybrid 12.75 to solid.
Each time I switched it was great for about a week and a half. Then the real adjustment period began.
About 6 months playing everyday before it was automatic again.
I, like you, like the feel of solid. I also like that you can use deflection to your advantage on those balls where your hooked just enough, where you cant see it.

If you want to try and shrink the deflection learning curve,i did drills for about 3 weeks that have you use center inside and center outside only.

It shrunk the 6 months to about 4 months, for me, playing everyday.

You just have to put in the work until your brain can adjust on its own.

It absolutely sucks for a while but im glad i stuck with it.

Good luck with your new cue!
 
Jaden

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
The best thing is to look into BHE...

TheDirtyBird said:
I've been playing pool for about 2 1/2 years now. I'm not the greatest player, but I'm trying to get better. I only play APA, and I'm a 5 in 8-ball and a 6 in 9-ball. I've gone through several cues in the past couple years (11 to be exact. lol) trying to find the cue that I feel is for me. My first was a Poison Black Widow that I wanted so my wife got it for Christmas. From there I've owned a Viking, 3 Lucasis, 3 Predators, a Jacoby, a Schon, and now I have a Pechauer. Almost all of them I had a low deflection shaft with except for the Jacoby came with a solid maple shaft, though I was quick to buy a predator shaft for it and never took the time to play with the maple shaft. I did however like the feel of the solid shaft when I did hit with it a few times. It felt a lot better and more solid with better feedback than all the low deflection shafts. I'm in the process of purchasing a Diveney Sneaky Pete and plan on making it my primary shooter. A friend of mine has a Diveney cue and I love it. It hits and feels amazing. My big concern is teaching myself to adjust to the added deflection that is going to come with a solid shaft. Anyone else go from LD to solid maple? How long did it take to adjust your game and aiming? I know it will be different for everyone, just wanting to get some opinions and feedback.
Click to expand...

Look into finding a cues pivot point and learn about back hand english. Those who do have the easiest time adjusting from LD to standard and back.

Jaden
 
Dave-Kat

Dave-Kat

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I always used solid maple. However, I have gone back and forth over the last 3 years. Always end up back to a 'good' solid maple shaft. Not just any maple, I am picky about the maple shaft wood I choose and use.

Does not take me long to adjust from one to another.I find the LD's feel 'hollow' with lack 'feel' and lack of feed/feedback to me.

-Kat,
 
J

JohnnyOzone

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
billiardthought said:
I shot with LD for the first two years of my pool career. I switched to standard maple when I was a 6 in 8 ball and never looked back. But what I did do to soften the blow of the change was get my shafts made at about 12.5-12.6mm width and a half inch ferrule. Kept the hit of standard maple with a little less weight on the end of the shaft.
Click to expand...

This is very good advice - especially the shorter ferrule.

It's too bad you didn't get a Jacoby Edge Hybrid shaft when you had your Jacoby cue. You would have liked the hit better than the Predator.
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
IMO, set up shots with doughnuts. Shoot each one 10 times with the new cue. Then move on to the next. You will relearn your aim very quickly this way.
 
gregnice37

gregnice37

Bar Banger, Cue Collector
Silver Member
Well you made a great choice with Diveney as his cues are really great shooters. Stupid me sold the one I had but Pat is building me another as we speak. I only play on a bar box myself in league & tournament each 1x a week. Over the years I've gone back & forth with solid maple with ivory Ferrules & or shafts(specifically meucci pro & ultimate weapon & now 12.4mm revo.) I shoot about the same no matter what I'm using. since I got my revo about 2 months ago I haven't used anything else. I do have 4 customs incoming this year and asked all 4 cue makers to make my shafts 12.4 or 12.5mm as well. It's a comfort thing.

I'm pretty sure Pat uses the 1/2" Ferrules on his shafts, normally lbm unless you asked for something different so the deflection won't be drastic on the bar box compared to what you are using now.
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Bhe

Jaden said:
Look into finding a cues pivot point and learn about back hand english. Those who do have the easiest time adjusting from LD to standard and back.

Jaden
Click to expand...

BHE is a great way to play, its even better with an LD.
 
Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
I understand the physics behind deflection quite well. What I do not understand is the quantification, the extent to which LD shafts change things from a normal shaft. Being a cue maker, I am aware of the significant spectrum in quality, spine, and density of solid maple. One maple shaft is not the same as every other. In fact, it's challenging to accurately match two shafts for a cue. Considering that LD shafts are also made of maple, albeit laminated, there will be the same inconsistencies. Indeed that is exactly what I have noticed with them. They range pretty dramatically in weight from one shaft to another, which by the very definition will cause inconsistencies from shaft to shaft concerning the LD properties.

Another thing often mentioned is ferrule length. Ferrule length is only a factor when there's only one way to install a ferrule & only one material to use. Only when you compare apples to apples does ferrule length factor. Case in point, and old fiber will be heavy where a newer thermo-plastic may weigh 25% less. If the thermo is a 1" ferrule with typical 5/16-18 install type, it will be a noticeably heavier ferrule than a 1/2" fiber with 3/8" straight slip fit. That's extreme ends of the spectrum with a zillion possibilities in-between.

So my point is, given that everybody understands what LD means, how does it translate to the table & with all the variables, who can be 100% sure the LD shaft they buy is actually lower deflection than the standard maple that came with the cue? How many people actually compare them in a head on, unbiased test? Furthermore, how much of the "LD makes you play better" is in the player's head? I'm not disputing the science behind LD. I'm only questioning how much the shaft shopper actually knows about the ever present variables, and to what degree it matters. It seems to be common accepted belief that LD labeled & marketed shafts are across the board lower deflection than standard maple, and I challenge that notion. How many people perceive themselves as playing better with LD shafts because they wholeheartedly believe they are supposed to?
 
hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
qbilder said:
I understand the physics behind deflection quite well. What I do not understand is the quantification, the extent to which LD shafts change things from a normal shaft. Being a cue maker, I am aware of the significant spectrum in quality, spine, and density of solid maple. One maple shaft is not the same as every other. In fact, it's challenging to accurately match two shafts for a cue. Considering that LD shafts are also made of maple, albeit laminated, there will be the same inconsistencies. Indeed that is exactly what I have noticed with them. They range pretty dramatically in weight from one shaft to another, which by the very definition will cause inconsistencies from shaft to shaft concerning the LD properties.

Another thing often mentioned is ferrule length. Ferrule length is only a factor when there's only one way to install a ferrule & only one material to use. Only when you compare apples to apples does ferrule length factor. Case in point, and old fiber will be heavy where a newer thermo-plastic may weigh 25% less. If the thermo is a 1" ferrule with typical 5/16-18 install type, it will be a noticeably heavier ferrule than a 1/2" fiber with 3/8" straight slip fit. That's extreme ends of the spectrum with a zillion possibilities in-between.

So my point is, given that everybody understands what LD means, how does it translate to the table & with all the variables, who can be 100% sure the LD shaft they buy is actually lower deflection than the standard maple that came with the cue? How many people actually compare them in a head on, unbiased test? Furthermore, how much of the "LD makes you play better" is in the player's head? I'm not disputing the science behind LD. I'm only questioning how much the shaft shopper actually knows about the ever present variables, and to what degree it matters. It seems to be common accepted belief that LD labeled & marketed shafts are across the board lower deflection than standard maple, and I challenge that notion. How many people perceive themselves as playing better with LD shafts because they wholeheartedly believe they are supposed to?
Click to expand...

You make amazing cues, but you did what many people do, you listed LD shafts and solid maple shafts as being separate. Not all LD shafts are laminated. Predator is, OB is. Players HXT is not, neither are the shafts I played with from Mike Webb or from another local maker near me. What makes a shaft LD is the end mass, using thinner ferrule walls, smaller ferule (as you pointed out the material weight is a factor also), hollowed out shaft with some lighter material in the end. Plenty of LD shafts are also "solid maple". The laminated wood changes the hit of the shaft and how it may or may not warp but does not make a shaft LD or not on it's own.

I have watched pro players shoot with different cues, Mike Dechaine played with a Predator, when he did he tried my son's Players HXT shaft and was missing by an inch or two on every shot with it when he used spin. Whenever I change to a standard shaft, I need to make sure I aim 1/4 to 1/2 a ball off when using a tip or two of side spin or I hit a diamond off. I will bet if you put an LD shaft in the hands of someone like Bustamante, he will miss by an inch or more for a bit till he learned where to aim with it.
 
M

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
TheDirtyBird said:
Anyone else go from LD to solid maple? How long did it take to adjust your game and aiming?
Click to expand...


I can tell you that after playing with a 314-1 for several years, it took me about 6 weeks to get my head fully around a Z2 (on the same butt.) At home on my table, they felt pretty much the same, but at league, when under pressure, and when you had to get some juice on the CB I would miss a lot of shots I should not have.

You just have to let your muscle memory fully adjust and accept that your game will change for the better after those things you can't control get cemented in.
 
P

poolguy4u

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
:eek:



News flash-----not all laminated shafts are low deflection.

Just thought I would to spread a little knowledge....



:D




.
 
T

TheDirtyBird

Registered
A friend of mine has a Diveney butterfly cue that he bought about six months ago. I got to shoot with it for about an hour or so last night while he wasn't playing. His has a 12mm maple shaft. Of all the shafts/cues that I have used in the past 2 years, it hit and felt WAY better than any of them. The hit and feedback was amazing, and it sounded a lot better too. All the other shafts I used before seem hollow and cheap compared to that shaft. I didn't measure the ferrule but it looked to be about half an inch.
 
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