Is anyone using TOI and are you using it only or just sometimes? Thanks
Toi
- Thread starter bhambomber
- Start date
I use it and TOO also. My connection to the shot is not like what CJ teaches.
I use TOI about 90 percent of the time. I will give my experience more later.
Ok will be waiting on your results
I play using the TOI system. I will use something other than TOI if I need it to change an angle, but I try to stay in line where I can use TOI on every shot.
This post has been heavily edited to be in compliance with the new rules. All aiming systems are equally good. I have no preference for one over any other.
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Side question: I see people talk about beating the 9 ball or 10 ball ghost and I understand about all that except this -- how many games (race to what?) does it take before you say you beat the ghost? I'm not aware of any standardized number of games generally accepted that you beat the ghost. Surely it isn't 1 game and also not 20.
Playing the ghost is a 100% offensive game. I'm no good at it. Every time I attempt to race the ghost it reminds me of back when I was young and ignorant, thinking I could run out every rack and losing a lot of games trying. I love playing guys like that now, players that insist on taking low-percentage shots in lieu of a good safety plays.
Instead of a traditional race with the ghost, I incorporate safety play when appropriate. I put two coins under the rail, one for me and one for the ghost. Then I play until the coins meet again 18 games later. I win on runouts, of course, and the 9 on the snap. I don't take ball in hand after the break, but utilize a push-out if I have no shot. I make sure it's a realistic push-out and the ghost always gives it back, leaving myself a tough shot or a safety option. Anytime I snooker the ghost well enough for me not to get a hit (I shoot for the ghost in response to my own safety), I take a ball in hand and continue my effort to win the game. If I get a good hit while shooting for the ghost, the ghost wins the game. This offers two great practice techniques: 1... work on getting your opponent locked up well enough to earn a BIH, and 2...work on getting a hit from the great safety you just played. Doing this ghost playing method I typically score 12 to 15 games out of 18, depending on how well my safety game is going, and my kicking or jumping.
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Rackattach
Banned
Forgive my ignorance but is there an original TOO thread with the grip and instructions?
I agree with everything you say.
If you learn TOI, it will improve your game, whether you stay with the TOI system or not. TOI will teach you how to "dampen" the cue ball so it doesn't get "loose". It allows you to play natural angles to get position and lessens your need to spin the ball. Once you get it figured out, you will see the natural paths that the cue ball should travel in order to get position. Those paths may not be the paths that you currently are used to if you are a constant ball spinner. It will take you to simpler patterns and angles that allow the cue ball to travel its natural path.
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That's up to whomever is saying it. I race to 9 or 10. I think that is a fair number of games and takes most of the luck out of it. I dislike short races, both in tournament and for measuring.
It's not just the fact that you can beat the ghost with lucky rolls if you race to 5, but the opposite is true as well. Sometimes you get bs rolls or dog a couple of shots. With a race to 10 it's easier to keep grinding instead of making excuses to restart the race, that temptation is always there, but racing to 10 helps me avoid cheating myself that way.
Some days you lose, some days you win, but it's important that you do it fair and square, instead of taking shortcuts. IMO
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What's your results MJDOUTDOORS?
I say race to 7 is a good place to start. Long enough to get away with a sluggish start, but not short enough to luck your way to a win.
What happened??
Sorry, just been too busy to write. I'll write up a page on my TOI experience soon.
Thanks everyone for your input
I use T.O.I on 90% of my shots. I really found no flaws in the way C.J Wiley taught in in his video and his writings in these forums. His video is targeted mostly to beginners in T.O.I. He teaches going center - center and center - edge and moviing as much as a tip inside of verticle center. In his writings he touches on the three part pocket system, which entails aiming for the corner of the pocket and deflecting the cue ball into the center.
This is advanced T.O.I and requires going inside of verticle center only a millimeter or 2. This is where I'm at these days. All I can say is...it certainly is quite a challenge! It certainly is effective though when I apply the correct degree of deflection on the cue ball. I know the instant the cue ball leaves my tip if I've applied the correct degree of deflection.
I've come to learn a few things in my effort to master T.O.I I think. One thing I've learned is that it's impossible to apply the correct degree of deflection consistently without proper mechanics as far as placement of feet, etc. I started out doing things mechanically the way Wiley teaches in his other videos. ( Hey..he's the dude teaching T.O.I. It only makes sense then to take his instruction as to mechanics!)
He teaches bending both knees. I took that to the extreme. I bend them more than anybody else I've seen. Why? I started making more balls when I started bending them more! Also...I'm kinda upright and the line from my shoulder to my elbow is straight and parallel to the ground. Why?...you guessed!
I'm certainly not where I want to be yet using T.O.I The thing is...When I apply the proper degree of deflection on the ball, if it's a reasonable cut, the ball ALWAYS goes in..and I only apply the correct degree of deflection on the ball when my mechanics are sound. Both mechanics and T.O.I have to be in perfect unison. When they are with me and that ball drops in the middle of the pocket....IT FEELS GREAT! I say to myself "I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT THE POOL STROKE DOWN!
Oh boy though....It sure is a challenge trying to repeat this stroke after stroke! Some may say then, " If this is the case, how can you call T.O.I effective. Missing balls is not conducive to producing a happy pool player!" I'll say it again...I know the instant when the cue ball leaves my tip if I've applied the proper degree of deflection on the cue ball. I'm very rarely wrong. If I can meet the challenge and start repeating this stroke?......Who says I can't?
I know I'm in the aiming section. So how do I aim. Someone else in these forums once put it best...." I aim at the part of the ball that says IN!" That's it. My focus is on mechanics and applying the correct degree of deflection on the cue - ball. So what's another thing I've learned....Well....I can't say this for sure. How can anyone tell with their bare eyes if a player is hitting a millimeter in 2 off center...and how can anyone with their bare eyes observe the very small degree of deflection that produces.
So I can't say this for sure. I'll surmise something though. I'll surmise that every top pro in the world right now is using T.O.I. Most of them are just not telling for whatever reason. Why do I surmise this.....because it feels so damn beautiful when I perform it effectively. I'm not a top level player; but, there simply CAN'T be another way to reach the top level in this game!
This is advanced T.O.I and requires going inside of verticle center only a millimeter or 2. This is where I'm at these days. All I can say is...it certainly is quite a challenge! It certainly is effective though when I apply the correct degree of deflection on the cue ball. I know the instant the cue ball leaves my tip if I've applied the correct degree of deflection.
I've come to learn a few things in my effort to master T.O.I I think. One thing I've learned is that it's impossible to apply the correct degree of deflection consistently without proper mechanics as far as placement of feet, etc. I started out doing things mechanically the way Wiley teaches in his other videos. ( Hey..he's the dude teaching T.O.I. It only makes sense then to take his instruction as to mechanics!)
He teaches bending both knees. I took that to the extreme. I bend them more than anybody else I've seen. Why? I started making more balls when I started bending them more! Also...I'm kinda upright and the line from my shoulder to my elbow is straight and parallel to the ground. Why?...you guessed!
I'm certainly not where I want to be yet using T.O.I The thing is...When I apply the proper degree of deflection on the ball, if it's a reasonable cut, the ball ALWAYS goes in..and I only apply the correct degree of deflection on the ball when my mechanics are sound. Both mechanics and T.O.I have to be in perfect unison. When they are with me and that ball drops in the middle of the pocket....IT FEELS GREAT! I say to myself "I GOT IT! I GOT IT! I GOT THE POOL STROKE DOWN!
Oh boy though....It sure is a challenge trying to repeat this stroke after stroke! Some may say then, " If this is the case, how can you call T.O.I effective. Missing balls is not conducive to producing a happy pool player!" I'll say it again...I know the instant when the cue ball leaves my tip if I've applied the proper degree of deflection on the cue ball. I'm very rarely wrong. If I can meet the challenge and start repeating this stroke?......Who says I can't?
I know I'm in the aiming section. So how do I aim. Someone else in these forums once put it best...." I aim at the part of the ball that says IN!" That's it. My focus is on mechanics and applying the correct degree of deflection on the cue - ball. So what's another thing I've learned....Well....I can't say this for sure. How can anyone tell with their bare eyes if a player is hitting a millimeter in 2 off center...and how can anyone with their bare eyes observe the very small degree of deflection that produces.
So I can't say this for sure. I'll surmise something though. I'll surmise that every top pro in the world right now is using T.O.I. Most of them are just not telling for whatever reason. Why do I surmise this.....because it feels so damn beautiful when I perform it effectively. I'm not a top level player; but, there simply CAN'T be another way to reach the top level in this game!
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