Joint Pin Sugestions

S

selkov

Registered
I am still learning the art of cue making. I have made many cues and all have been either 5/16 or Uni-loc. I now want to begin making pin to wood joints. I think i have narrowed down the options to a Modified 3/8x10 from Cue Veneer or the Uni-loc radial.

What pros/cons has anyone had with either?

Any characteristics in play that could help me decide one over the other?

What is your favorite?

Why?
 
P

Pancerny

Mike Pancerny
Silver Member
Radial in my opinion is the best. If you ream with a .308 reamer before tapping it will be snug, no need for the undersized tap. Use the good hardware, it's not much more and the customers will know the difference.


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
S

selkov

Registered
Pancerny,
Thanks for the reamer suggestion. That's is very good to know.
What do you mean by "The Good Hardware"?
 
Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
My pin is a flat thread 3/8-10. I chose 3/8-10 because it's common. I chose the dimensions based on the drill bits I use, so I don't ever need to use a boring bar or reamer. IMO, there's no such thing as "best". So long as the pin pulls the shaft snug and accurate to the butt, it's a fine joint. No pin does that better than another. Whatever you choose, so long as you use it correctly, is the best.
 
whammo57

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
3/8-10 is very good..... easy to install with carbide drill ... easy to tap......... always use a phenolic insert in the shaft............

Kim
 
S

selkov

Registered
whammo57,
Can you clarify as to why I would want a phenolic insert in the shaft?
I thought th point was to ge tthe most natural wood feel. Why introduce a third element?
 
P

Pancerny

Mike Pancerny
Silver Member
By "good hardware" I mean use the UniLoc pins, not the Chinese imports or knockoffs. They are about double the price but the finish is more polished and looks like chrome. They also come protected in individual sleeves so they will not have damaged threads when you start.

As some others have suggested you can also use the 3/8-10, the version with the .308 minor diameter is better as that serves as a center to align the shaft and butt precisely...better than the ACME thread version and on par with the Radial. The benefit of Radial is the tap, it cuts cleaner threads into wood than other taps are capable of. If you drill undersize, ream, then soak the internal bore with a thin cyano glue before tapping, it will cut pretty clean threads though. It makes the wood more like plastic and does not tear out the wood compared to when you cut without doing the glue first. Experiment with it and I think you'll like that tip.

Happy cue making.


Sent from my iPad using AzBilliards Forums
 
Kim Bye

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To be honest, it does not really matter that much, as long as you do it the right way. Radial is easy to install and threading shafts is easy too.
3/8-10M, means thathouse regular .302" 3/8-10 shafts want fit your pin, but it's a quick job to make the shafts fit.
 
S

selkov

Registered
If taken as a given that setup and installation are done correctly would there be any difference over time as to the wear of the fit? I seem to remember older Mcdermott's that feel sloppy when screwing together. I would assume that in time that might translate to some joint misalignment?
Would a radial behave differently?

And Whammo57 suggested using a phenolic insert - has anyone?
Does it affect the feel for the wood as compared to wood?
 
Michael Webb

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
selkov said:
If taken as a given that setup and installation are done correctly would there be any difference over time as to the wear of the fit? I seem to remember older Mcdermott's that feel sloppy when screwing together. I would assume that in time that might translate to some joint misalignment?
Would a radial behave differently?

And Whammo57 suggested using a phenolic insert - has anyone?
Does it affect the feel for the wood as compared to wood?
Click to expand...


Everything wears over time. Phenolic inserts have gained in popularity over the past few years. Phenolic being harder than wood of course will wear less. The difference in hit is different than wood but still a very good hit. The 3/8x10 that McDermott uses is one of my favorite screws. If you go by the standard set up of drilling 5/16 for the hole. It's not the correct size.
Ex.
Standard 3/8x10 has a .281 minor so the right drill bit is not 5/16. You can use a 9/32 drill which is .281 or a 7.2mm which is .283 for the hole. My tap is different than the standard offered because I had Widell make me the correct tap to match the screw. A bit more in cost but I got the results I was after. I also do the uni loc quick release, radial, 3/8x11, 5/16x14 and 18 to accommodate my customers preferences.
 
Last edited:
BarenbruggeCues

BarenbruggeCues

Unregistered User
Silver Member
selkov said:
I am still learning the art of cue making. I have made many cues and all have been either 5/16 or Uni-loc. I now want to begin making pin to wood joints. I think i have narrowed down the options to a Modified 3/8x10 from Cue Veneer or the Uni-loc radial.

What pros/cons has anyone had with either?

Any characteristics in play that could help me decide one over the other?

What is your favorite?

Why?
Click to expand...

May as well put my foot in the door........
Honestly I don't think you're going to find much difference in the way the cue plays by the pin that is installed. What you will find is the difference in the quality of the work from someone that may or may not know what they're doing. No matter what pin you decide to use learn how to do an install properly.
If you want to do a pin in wood application, acquire the correct tools to get the job done right and don't settle for having to do additional work because you may not know what you're doing.
I know many use drills, reamers and taps with great success and that is certainly one way to get it done. Myself, I prefer to tackle the job with a complete live tooling set up.
I use a barrel pin with back threads such as Cue Veneer handles....size doesn't matter, procedure the same.
Drill an under sized hole in the shaft
Bore to the correct size needed with a router bit
Live cut threads
Chamfer hole 60 degree
Repeat
If done correctly, you can control how tight(or loose) you would like the pin to fit as you thread the shaft onto the pin. I like this style of pin for a number of reasons compared to other styles. Not debating about which pin is better, just saying this is the style I prefer.
If properly done, threads cut directly into wood will out last you. If not properly done, who knows?
 
S

selkov

Registered
Thank you all for your feed back and advice, I appreciate it greatly. I found online a few pictures posted by DZCUES where he had a cut away of a 3/8x10 with a tapped hole and one of the 3/8x10 modified w/live tooling. Must say i like the ide of the modified w/live tooling. Not to be beat the horse, but has anyone done a cutaway of the Uniloc Radial pin?
 
Kim Bye

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
selkov said:
Thank you all for your feed back and advice, I appreciate it greatly. I found online a few pictures posted by DZCUES where he had a cut away of a 3/8x10 with a tapped hole and one of the 3/8x10 modified w/live tooling. Must say i like the ide of the modified w/live tooling. Not to be beat the horse, but has anyone done a cutaway of the Uniloc Radial pin?
Click to expand...

If you do a cutaway with Radial or Wavy, you will see much the same thing as with Bob`s 3/8-10M picture.
Remember that live threading requires extra investement in gear. You need thread mills, about $100 a pop, a good router like Kress and some way of mounting it to your lathe.
It`s not as difficult as making threads in metal, but, still it requires some extra work and effort.
 
conetip

conetip

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Fine pitch threads don't last in wood. The pin needs to have a very smooth surface, or else it will wear out the wood thread.
 
BarenbruggeCues

BarenbruggeCues

Unregistered User
Silver Member
conetip said:
Fine pitch threads don't last in wood. The pin needs to have a very smooth surface, or else it will wear out the wood thread.
Click to expand...
I've cut threads as fine 18 tpi directly into wood with no integrity problems. 99 times out of 100 it's owner operator error the messes up wood threads.
10 or 11 tpi are your best bet for longevity with less chance of being destroyed. But I've seen those cross threaded also. Again, it generally points back at operator error.
Yes, using a quality polished pin is also imperative to the longevity of the wood portion of the threads.
 
Kim Bye

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BarenbruggeCues said:
I've cut threads as fine 18 tpi directly into wood with no integrity problems. 99 times out of 100 it's owner operator error the messes up wood threads.
10 or 11 tpi are your best bet for longevity with less chance of being destroyed. But I've seen those cross threaded also. Again, it generally points back at operator error.
Yes, using a quality polished pin is also imperative to the longevity of the wood portion of the threads.
Click to expand...

I use 18 TPI all the time for ferrules and such.
If the threads are live tooled and then given a bit of thin CA, I think that 5/16-14 actually would work, as long as the user is carefull.. Those live tooled threads come out looking pretty darn nice.
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Kim Bye said:
I use 18 TPI all the time for ferrules and such.
If the threads are live tooled and then given a bit of thin CA, I think that 5/16-14 actually would work, as long as the user is carefull.. Those live tooled threads come out looking pretty darn nice.
Click to expand...

The hole is 1/4 . The thread mill head is 1/4.
You will have to thread the hole going out.
Not impossible but needs really good eyes and setup.
 
conetip

conetip

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
The hole is 1/4 . The thread mill head is 1/4.
You will have to thread the hole going out.
Not impossible but needs really good eyes and setup.
Click to expand...

Depending on set up, but you can set a centre line stop or some other reference independent of the cross slide dial or digit readout.
Neil
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top