Hanging Ball Falls

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warriorpoet62

AzB Silver Member
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I'm sure this has been addressed, but the search couldn't find it. I'm not even sure how to search for it.

This happened during action today, and no one knew what to do?

Player A shoots a ball and it rattles in the pocket. Player A sits down and Player B approaches the table. Before Player B touches the table (he's looking over the shot) the ball falls into the pocket.

What is the ruling?

thanks
wp62
 
A

AtLarge

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From the WPA (world-standardized) rules:

1.7 Balls Settling
A ball may settle slightly after it appears to have stopped, possibly due to slight imperfections in the ball or the table. Unless this causes a ball to fall into a pocket, it is considered a normal hazard of play, and the ball will not be moved back. If a ball falls into a pocket as the result of such settling, it is restored as closely as possible to its original position. If a settling ball falls into a pocket during or just prior to a shot, and this has an effect on the shot, the referee will restore the position and the shot will be replayed. The shooter is not penalized for shooting while a ball is settling. See also 8.3 Ball Pocketed.

8.3 Ball Pocketed
A ball is pocketed if it comes to rest in a pocket below the playing surface or enters the ball return system. A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.
If a ball stops near the edge of a pocket, and remains apparently motionless for five seconds, it is not considered pocketed if it later falls into the pocket by itself. See 1.7 Balls Settling for other details. During that five second period, the referee should ensure that no other shot is taken. An object ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the playing surface is not a pocketed ball. If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not. The referee will remove pocketed object balls from full or nearly full pockets, but it is the shooter’s responsibility to see that this duty is performed.
 
BmoreMoney

BmoreMoney

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AtLarge said:
From the WPA (world-standardized) rules:

1.7 Balls Settling
A ball may settle slightly after it appears to have stopped, possibly due to slight imperfections in the ball or the table. Unless this causes a ball to fall into a pocket, it is considered a normal hazard of play, and the ball will not be moved back. If a ball falls into a pocket as the result of such settling, it is restored as closely as possible to its original position. If a settling ball falls into a pocket during or just prior to a shot, and this has an effect on the shot, the referee will restore the position and the shot will be replayed. The shooter is not penalized for shooting while a ball is settling. See also 8.3 Ball Pocketed.

8.3 Ball Pocketed
A ball is pocketed if it comes to rest in a pocket below the playing surface or enters the ball return system. A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.
If a ball stops near the edge of a pocket, and remains apparently motionless for five seconds, it is not considered pocketed if it later falls into the pocket by itself. See 1.7 Balls Settling for other details. During that five second period, the referee should ensure that no other shot is taken. An object ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the playing surface is not a pocketed ball. If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not. The referee will remove pocketed object balls from full or nearly full pockets, but it is the shooter’s responsibility to see that this duty is performed.
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This is why whenever this happens to me I pound my hand on the rail in not only disbelief that the ball did not fall but also in anger that the ball did not fall . If, by chance the ball falls before I return to my seat I ALWAYS take that as a made shot and continue. This of course does not happen often but when it has I have always retained control of the table. On the rare occasion when this has happened and some one has challengedone this I have always retained the table or collected without fail.
 
Poolhall60561

Poolhall60561

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BmoreMoney said:
This is why whenever this happens to me I pound my hand on the rail in not only disbelief that the ball did not fall but also in anger that the ball did not fall . If, by chance the ball falls before I return to my seat I ALWAYS take that as a made shot and continue. This of course does not happen often but when it has I have always retained control of the table. On the rare occasion when this has happened and some one has challengedone this I have always retained the table or collected without fail.
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Pounding your hand on the table to move a ball should be a foul. Its like blowing on the ball or bumping the table.
 
A

AtLarge

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Poolhall60561 said:
Pounding your hand on the table to move a ball should be a foul. Its like blowing on the ball or bumping the table.
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Which takes us to the WPA rules again:

6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a three-foul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points.
Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly. It includes
(a) distracting the opponent;
(b) changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot;
(c) playing a shot by intentionally miscuing;
(d) continuing to play after a foul has been called or play has been suspended;
(e) practicing during a match;
(f) marking the table;
(g) delay of the game; and
(h) using equipment inappropriately.
 
trob

trob

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You start by Someone pulling out there phone and googling the rules .... Problem solved lol
 
Cracktherack

Cracktherack

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I had this same thing happen in a 9 ball tournament. My opponent broke and the 1 ball hung on the lip of the corner pocket. He sat down, I came to the table and chalked my cue. I got down on the shot and the 1 ball fell. My opponent jumped up and claimed it was still his turn. We argued and the tournament director came to the table. We explained what happened and the ruling was "Re-rack and play the rack over again."
Nice that you have a tournament director that has no clue about actual rules.
 
Nostroke

Nostroke

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If when the ball falls, you immediately get up and sing La Boheme while running backwards around the table with your pants around your ankles, it counts-otherwise it is replaced. At least that is the way we have always played!
 
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plhlolelnlilx

plhlolelnlilx

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Cracktherack said:
I had this same thing happen in a 9 ball tournament. My opponent broke and the 1 ball hung on the lip of the corner pocket. He sat down, I came to the table and chalked my cue. I got down on the shot and the 1 ball fell. My opponent jumped up and claimed it was still his turn. We argued and the tournament director came to the table. We explained what happened and the ruling was "Re-rack and play the rack over again."
Nice that you have a tournament director that has no clue about actual rules.
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The solution to re-rack in your situation was not a bad one considering it was from the break that the problem arose. Different tournaments will follow different rules.
 
sbpoolleague

sbpoolleague

AzB Silver Member
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warriorpoet62 said:
I'm sure this has been addressed, but the search couldn't find it. I'm not even sure how to search for it.

This happened during action today, and no one knew what to do?

Player A shoots a ball and it rattles in the pocket. Player A sits down and Player B approaches the table. Before Player B touches the table (he's looking over the shot) the ball falls into the pocket.

What is the ruling?

thanks
wp62
Click to expand...
Official Rules of CueSports International
Rule 1-49.3 Balls Settling or Moving
If a ball is hanging on the lip of a pocket and falls into that pocket by itself after being stationary for five seconds or longer, it will be replaced as closely as possible to the position it was in prior to falling. The five-second count does not begin until all balls in play have stopped moving. Whether the shooter remains at the table does not affect the five-second period.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Cracktherack said:
I had this same thing happen in a 9 ball tournament. My opponent broke and the 1 ball hung on the lip of the corner pocket. He sat down, I came to the table and chalked my cue. I got down on the shot and the 1 ball fell. My opponent jumped up and claimed it was still his turn. We argued and the tournament director came to the table. We explained what happened and the ruling was "Re-rack and play the rack over again."
Nice that you have a tournament director that has no clue about actual rules.
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It's hard to find good help.

If you see this TD again it might help him to see a copy of the WSR. It's no good for him to be making up his own.
 
S

Skippy27

AzB Silver Member
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plhlolelnlilx said:
The solution to re-rack in your situation was not a bad one considering it was from the break that the problem arose. Different tournaments will follow different rules.
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Yes it was and unless they specify they are using X rules with Y bylaws then they should be going by the rules that X states 100%.

The fact that it happened on the break is irrelevant.
 
3andstop

3andstop

Focus
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Poolhall60561 said:
Pounding your hand on the table to move a ball should be a foul. Its like blowing on the ball or bumping the table.
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I don't know about it being a foul, I'd say it's more than that. It's an unsportsmanlike conduct foul and deserves loss of game.
 
plhlolelnlilx

plhlolelnlilx

F.I.S.H.
Silver Member
Skippy27 said:
Yes it was and unless they specify they are using X rules with Y bylaws then they should be going by the rules that X states 100%.

The fact that it happened on the break is irrelevant.
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The tournament director chooses to handle the situation in a way that's fair to each player. Player A breaks and the ball doesn't fall until Player B reaches the table. What is the location of the 2? Can you replace the 1 accurately on the shelf? If not, racking again is an acceptable and fair option.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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plhlolelnlilx said:
The tournament director chooses to handle the situation in a way that's fair to each player. Player A breaks and the ball doesn't fall until Player B reaches the table. What is the location of the 2? Can you replace the 1 accurately on the shelf? If not, racking again is an acceptable and fair option....
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Except that's not what the rules say. A tournament director should know the rules. I've seen many TDs who have never read the rules.
 
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