anyone use the Tiger Tip Glue?

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
As the title asks, Anyone? I am wondering if this works better on the cheap ferrules from China that regular Loctite fails on. I have even used the primer and they still fail. I just had one come back that even leaving some of the old tip on it then gluing to that, and it failed also....first time. Someone must know what they use over there when making them. It's not easy convincing a customer to change their ferrule when they had a tip hold on the new one for 2 years, and I not a fan of changing them free of charge either.
Dave
 

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
This is why my shafts have that divot on the end that looks like a center hole. Folks who do repairs think it looks sloppy because they don't understand what's going on, so I sometimes have to fade the "expert opinions" on why my shafts have that divot. The reason is because it's not good enough to be true square. Cyano bonds strongest when the interface is extremely close. The faint lines left behind after the facing cut or even a tip scuffed too gritty is enough to weaken the bond. Think rear view mirror, roughly a pound hanging on less than a square inch, stuck to polished glass with cyano. The surface of the ferrule has to be smooth, not just flat. With the lathe spinning, I use the tip of a utility blade to make that divot, then hold the blade on edge so it scrapes the face perfect shiny flat. If the divot isn't there, the blade will create a hump in the center, which knocks the face out of square. The divot allows the blade to cut both sides equally and square. I know a few others who do this besides myself, but not many. When you see a shaft with that divot under the tip, you'll now know why. It's not sloppy at all. It's somebody doing everything possible to maximize the tip bond.

I'm not sure this will work for the ferrules you're speaking of. I suspect it will, but I don't have any experience with them so I don't know. I rarely even scuff tips. I almost never scuff layered tips. When I do scuff a tip, it's with finer grit. Again, interface is maybe the most critical aspect of gluing on a tip. Ironically, it's the least considered.
 
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ekb6760

Misplaced Texan
Gold Member
Silver Member
This is why my shafts have that divot on the end that looks like a center hole. Folks who do repairs think it looks sloppy because they don't understand what's going on, so I sometimes have to fade the "expert opinions" on why my shafts have that divot. The reason is because it's not good enough to be true square. Cyano bonds strongest when the interface is extremely close. The faint lines left behind after the facing cut or even a tip scuffed too gritty is enough to weaken the bond. Think rear view mirror, roughly a pound hanging on less than a square inch, stuck to polished glass with cyano. The surface of the ferrule has to be smooth, not just flat. With the lathe spinning, I use the tip of a utility blade to make that divot, then hold the blade on edge so it scrapes the face perfect shiny flat. If the divot isn't there, the blade will create a hump in the center, which knocks the face out of square. The divot allows the blade to cut both sides equally and square. I know a few others who do this besides myself, but not many. When you see a shaft with that divot under the tip, you'll now know why. It's not sloppy at all. It's somebody doing everything possible to maximize the tip bond.

I'm not sure this will work for the ferrules you're speaking of. I suspect it will, but I don't have any experience with them so I don't know. I rarely even scuff tips. I almost never scuff layered tips. When I do scuff a tip, it's with finer grit. Again, interface is maybe the most critical aspect of gluing on a tip. Ironically, it's the least considered.

Any chance of you doing a video of this? It's a little hard for my pea brain to visualize.
 

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
Thanks for sharing Eric. I myself, sand flat the tips with 400, then prime with thin CA then hit with accel. then sand flat again, then face the ferrule and while rotating, sad the facing with 600. I then check to make sure the tip sits flat with no amount of wobble...if it's good it gets glued. The only problem is with the cheap Chinese ferrules, which is about 1/3rd of the re-tipping work I do. Leaving a thin layer of the old tip and soaking it with CA has always worked for me, but as I said, just had one fail and it was with a white diamond tip. I hate going thru the work of changing a ferrule and not being able to charge for it. I make my own ferrules, so I have a bit of time involved.
Dave
 

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Back in Jersey in the 80's I did a lot of tip replacements on Gus Szamboti Ivory ferules.
Under the tip pad on the ferule itself he put several rings in the Ivory.
I guess this helped bond the pad to the Ivory?
 

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
Before this gets too derailed on methods, back to my question, How is the Tiger Glue? As anyone can guess, in the factories in China, no one is doing what we do for tip installs, but whatever they use for glue holds REALLY good to that ferrule material, without all the finesse that we use....so what the F%^# kinda glue is it? I have watched videos of the Chinese factories putting cues together and basically they just slop on a type of glue, and then a tip and it holds, no special measures taken.
Dave
 

GoldCrown

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'm not a cue maker. Just a hobbiest. I turn pens, bottle stoppers and small items. Also tip cue shafts and have done some ferrules and tenons.
The CA I use for everything is Bob Smith(medium) CA. I buy it online it is less than $10 for a 2oz bottle. It has the same label as Tiger glue just says Bob Smith. It is most likely 100% the same. I never a had problem with it.

These pictures are the best I could get but google and look for a 2oz bottle for less than $10 shipped

I sand tips with 80-120...to get a good rough surface. As for failing on the ferrule some CA’s might be strictly made for plastic. And as we know not all plastics are the same. And the ferrule you had problem with....who knows what it is made with.
 

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qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
As Crown posted, it's relabeled BSI. I tried some of the Tiger years ago & it was glue, nothing special.
 

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
Ok, thanks guys. I was hoping it was the solution to the issue, but it doesn't sound it. I will say whatever material is used on tose cheap cues, it's pretty tough. It didn't melt under heat when I removed it. Any Idea as to what plastic doesn't melt or deform under heat?
Dave
 

GoldCrown

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I’m reading your original post again. Glue failure correct. Maybe the container of glue is no good?
 

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
I’m reading your original post again. Glue failure correct. Maybe the container of glue is no good?

Failure, yes, but not due to freshness of glue. The cheap Asian cues have a ferrule material that doesn't bond well, if at all, with the normal CA's being used for tips. It is especially noticeable when putting a break tip on them, a few breaks and the tip pops off. Change ferrule to Juma, tomahawk, or lbm, and problem is solved, but don't like to change ferrules, would rather find out what glue they use originally.
After doing some research, being a heat resistant material, I have ordered a glue that may work, don't know until I get it and test it.
Dave
 

spktur

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Failure, yes, but not due to freshness of glue. The cheap Asian cues have a ferrule material that doesn't bond well, if at all, with the normal CA's being used for tips. It is especially noticeable when putting a break tip on them, a few breaks and the tip pops off. Change ferrule to Juma, tomahawk, or lbm, and problem is solved, but don't like to change ferrules, would rather find out what glue they use originally.
After doing some research, being a heat resistant material, I have ordered a glue that may work, don't know until I get it and test it.
Dave

I think some of them need a nail to get a tip to stick
 

Bumlak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As Crown posted, it's relabeled BSI. I tried some of the Tiger years ago & it was glue, nothing special.

THAT right there. I did the same. It's BS Med Insta-Cure Gap Filling. You can buy the big bottles at Hobby Town for $30-ish dollars. I didn't realize it was the same until Eric gave me the skinny on changing glue for my finishing.
 

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
Update:
I removed a ferrule from a shaft that the White Diamond popped off twice and installed it onto a 'warped' test shaft. I did my usual prep steps, nothing different. I then used a Loctite product that is for all plastics. It uses an activator. I glued the same WD on it, waited the normal 24 hours and then tested it at home, then brought it to a tourny where my buddy that breaks around the 25-26mph range used it for about 10 hard breaks and so far it's still attached. Time will tell, but shows promise so far.
Dave
20180224_152001.jpg
 

James Sarenich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
3M™ Scotch-Weld™ Epoxy Adhesive DP420
It needs an applicator gun. That can be about $50.00. I don't mess with the mixing nozzles. You do not use enough epoxy for a tip to justify using them. I use this on Samsara, White Diamond, and Odega. I have never had one pop off. The draw back is the cost of the gun and the fact that it takes 24 hours at 70 degrees to cure most of the way. I tell my customers not to break for 48 hours after install. I have only used the black.

I am not a cue maker. Jim
 
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