Orcullo and mellings

alphadog said:

I watched the first 4/5 racks of Orcullo's run and was not impressed.

Mellings was more controlled,he seemed to have problems not getting good on the break ball.

Compared to say Dallas West Runs A 100, these guys looked way out of control.

Your opinions?

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I would say at least half of the participants of the DCC challenge don't have a background in 14.1 at all. Some Filipinos and some of the Euros don't play typical patterns and leave key balls on the table. Watching Melling's run I would say half of his break balls would be used in secondary break shots.

I haven't watched much of Mellings but I have watched a lot of Orcollo.

Orcollo has a lot of strong points. His break shots are phenomenal - he uses the right spin to get the cue ball away from the rack. For the most part he uses classic philosophies like insurance ball and opening clusters are the right speed.

The other thing that's phenomenal is how he controls the cue ball going one rail with the exact speed and spin needed. That's probably what looks unconventional to some people but he is as good as anybody in the world which is why he plays one rail position from the key ball to the break ball so much.

https://youtu.be/KYSmdG6fvvg?list=PLfaC80gLaoP_8BUWf4DggaJMUd2gcek2t&t=823

In the first few racks that's a brain fart and I don't know why he played it that way with no insurance ball and other balls open which could be used to open the rack. Maybe with the awkward bridge he inadvertently put the wrong spin on the ball. That's the only major mistake I saw in the first few racks.

https://youtu.be/KYSmdG6fvvg?list=PLfaC80gLaoP_8BUWf4DggaJMUd2gcek2t&t=1397

That's something which has been discussed before on this forum. Side pocket key balls look good but I avoid them unless they are close to the side pocket because if you don't get straight you have to scramble.

It looks unconventional at times but I like his game and for the most part he uses classic principles.

Regarding the difference between previous generation like Dallas West and guys like Orcollo - those guys were great players but they learned the game with nap cloth and clay balls and their style reflects that era.

alphadog said:

I watched the first 4/5 racks of Orcullo's run and was not impressed.
Mellings was more controlled,he seemed to have problems not getting good on the break ball.
Compared to say Dallas West Runs A 100, these guys looked way out of control.
Your opinions?

Click to expand...

You might not like his style but in the history of the Derby Challenge Dennis has been the most consistent high run participant. He runs over a hundred 3 or 4 times each year while generally taking the fewest attempts. He's never failed to qualify and has won the event twice. Very impressive considering he hasen't played straight pool very long and only plays twice a year.

-Bill

Marop said:

You might not like his style but in the history of the Derby Challenge Dennis has been the most consistent high run participant. He runs over a hundred 3 or 4 times each year while generally taking the fewest attempts. He's never failed to qualify and has won the event twice. Very impressive considering he hasen't played straight pool very long and only plays twice a year.

-Bill

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I don't understand people who don't like a world class player's "style". The only guys who bother me are the slow players and Orcollo isn't slow. For the most part he employs classic 14.1 strategy and plays a controlled game.

If the proposed one pocket with Orcollo and Frost happens I guarantee Frost's backers will disappear if the subject of 14.1 comes up.

alphadog said:

I watched the first 4/5 racks of Orcullo's run and was not impressed.
Mellings was more controlled,he seemed to have problems not getting good on the break ball.
Compared to say Dallas West Runs A 100, these guys looked way out of control.
Your opinions?

Click to expand...

Chris Melling has a beautiful, smooth, long stroke (reminding me of my own - coughing slightly - LOL!), and I'd give a [let me think…] for his shotmaking ability, but his pattern play is a mess.

Watched his 225 so far, a run that could easily have ended at 29 (he got lucky getting when he overran his position on the break ball, just off-straight on the wrong side, yet straight enough to be able to follow two rails into the stack). In fact, he gets almost straight-in on several break shots, invariably because he doesn't have position as in a stop-shot end pattern, but needs to play position (huge difference - a matter of time until one ends up off-angle or straight-in, so it was to be expected that his run would end in this manner). He comes awfully close to scratching in the side once (admittedly, of all his blunders, the most difficult to foresee); unnecessarily puts himself into a spot where he needs to bank a ball which he only just barely makes; runs into a break shot from his key shot bumping it up-table, yet miraculously has the angle to pull another rabbit out of the hat; needs to shoot off the end-rail several times after break shots because he loses the cue ball upstream, manufactures (as in bump into place) break shots late in the rack running out of options (do or die); and plays at least one end pattern in which he needs to get perfectly straight on a key ball without lead ball, i.e. he's relying on cue ball speed rather than carefully chosen patterns.

(Having said all that, we've all had our rough runs, I'm sure. Maybe the run isn't representative of his pattern play, planning to watch his 143 next. Also, let's not forget he's just come back from a break, and already in glorious form.)

Just doing the math, however, the run could easily have ended earlier about a dozen times or more, making the net result of 225 a near-miracle. Needless to say, I admire how Melling allows his natural talent to carry him through - more power to him!

As to Dennis Orcollo, I need to watch more of his Straight Pool (so far only seen his U.S. Open Final against Shane Van Boening). It's true he's got his own style of trying to stay away from trouble, partly to do with the fact that he's short (I am, so maybe I'm noticing "typical" avoidance strategies that taller players might interpret as idiosyncrasies - we short players want to be able to reach shots where a good stroke is needed, but will stretch for anything whatsoever where a little poke will do). I was there to watch his World 8-Ball Final in Fujairah in 2011, and figured his short, poky, extremely straight delivery through the cue ball, and avoidance of side spin on any shot that's farther away than a couple of feet, might lend themselves to Straight Pool (he sure knows how to finesse the cue ball with minimum effort). One can tell he hasn't grown up playing the game (love his way of taking a step back and embracing his cue when he's pondering, refusing to shoot before he's made up his mind), but notice he's looking out for insurance ball scenarios and positional play that affords options versus trying to thread the needle where he doesn't need to - a smart player who's a fast learner on foreign territory, no use underestimating him!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

Marop said:

... Very impressive considering he hasen't played straight pool very long and only plays twice a year. ...

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Hey, he doubled that last year with 4 straight-pool events: DCC Challenge, US Open 14.1, World Tournament, and American Championship. Maybe the guy is sneaking in a little 14.1 practice when no one is looking.

I learned so much watching filipino(Orcollo, Alex, Chua) players when I was having trip to WPS and Derby. They have so smart ways to get small areas that you could think they are lucky... but actually they play smarter than anyone I´ve seen... Especially rotation games.
Haven´t yet watched from Tube runs yet because I watched a lot of them live.

P.s I actually believe Orcollo is even on One-pocket with Alex. Frost gotta get hard time...
I played cheap one pocket couple hours against both on them. Managed get even against Alex 3-3 but lost Orcollo 2-6... He was phenomenal! Running 8-and-out from perfect safeties..

alphadog said:

I watched the first 4/5 racks of Orcullo's run and was not impressed.
Mellings was more controlled,he seemed to have problems not getting good on the break ball.
Compared to say Dallas West Runs A 100, these guys looked way out of control.
Your opinions?

Click to expand...

I watched both of these. Didn't know of Melling until this video. I thought the run was sensational. He gets through some very difficult racks.

Orcullo's first 3 or 4 racks look labored but he gets into a real groove after the first 25 minutes. His play is fearless and effortless. It was fun to watch. Thank you Bill and Dennis!

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