How does a player get an Established Fargo rating?

justinb386 · Mar 21, 2017

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I am just curious how a player obtains a Fargo rating.

I looked up many of the names of players that I knew in the past (players that I know still play in the league system), and none of them have a Fargo rating.

There was only 1 player who I looked up (at http://fairmatch.fargorate.com/) that I knew from my past, who I found a rating for, and that is Mike Dunklin, and I see that he is not even Established (he just has a preliminary rating). So, I assume that he has just not played in enough Fargo rate events, or league matches (that use the Fargo rate system).

I am just curious what type of league I would need to joint (BCA for example?), and how many matches I would need to play in order to obtain a Fargo rating?

Just curious.

Maybe Mike Page will see this thread, and give me a reply.

Please do not give me a hard time, if I should have already known the answers to my questions, by reading the Fargo rate website.

Thanks.

skip100 · Mar 21, 2017

You'd need to join a league that uses FargoRate for its handicapping, or play in open tournaments that get fed into the rating system.

There's probably a BCA league near you that uses it.

Kevin3824 · Mar 22, 2017

I am not the best person to answer this here that is for sure. I believe that the BCA leagues use Fargo as well as there are many tournaments (including many Pro tourneys) that also use fargo. Participation in either of those venues will get you Fargo Ratings. As far as becoming established I believe that question would be better addressed by a fargo rep. I believe the number is a hundred or so but I may be mistaken. I hope this helps

Kevin3824 · Mar 22, 2017

I was a bit wrong here is a more accurate answer to your question though.

Robustness is a measure of the reliability of a player’s Fargo Rating. For now, it is simply the number of games a player has played that contribute to his or her rating. A robustness of 200 is a minimum standard for us to consider a rating “established.” In general a rating is more reliable not only by being based on more games, but also by more of those games being recent and by more of those games being against opponents with established ratings. Robustness will likely incorporate these latter two factors in the future, and that is why we don’t simply call it number of games. Players with a robustness under 200, i.e., those with an unestablished rating, have an official rating that is influenced by a starter rating. [see What is a starter rating?]

Cornerman · Mar 22, 2017

skip100 said:
You'd need to join a league that uses FargoRate for its handicapping, or play in open tournaments that get fed into the rating system.

There's probably a BCA league near you that uses it.

Hmmm... I think BCAPL leagues send game results data to the FargoRate keepers, but I don't think that they need to use FargoRate for it's handicapping. I'm sure some BCAPL-sanctioned leagues do use FargoRate for handicapping, but it's not required for BCAPL or for establishing FargoRate handicaps.

The BCAPL leagues in my current area are non-handicapped, but their scores are sent to FargoRate.

MOJOE · Mar 22, 2017

I'm confused as to how they get your initial rating. I just got mine started as a 625 with a 0 robustness, a far weaker teammate started at 610. I do compete at the top of my AA league and I finished high in BCA vegas but that was 9 years ago. I'm not sure if that has any bearing on my started rating but it puts my team in a bad position for Vegas. Wondering how I started so high???

BRussell · Mar 22, 2017

You're established when you have 200 games in the system.

JC · Mar 22, 2017

Cornerman said:
Hmmm... I think BCAPL leagues send game results data to the FargoRate keepers, but I don't think that they need to use FargoRate for it's handicapping. I'm sure some BCAPL-sanctioned leagues do use FargoRate for handicapping, but it's not required for BCAPL or for establishing FargoRate handicaps.

The BCAPL leagues in my current area are non-handicapped, but their scores are sent to FargoRate.

Right now the league play isn't considered in the fargo ratings much. This is because the software currently used called leaguesys is cumbersome to extract data from for fargo. So if you only play in a league and never in any tournaments you will not have a meaningful fargo rating until the leaguesys software is replaced with something currently under beta testing by fargorate. Once this is done, league players everywhere will get connected to all the other players in the world via the players in their league who get out and play other competition. You can identify these player in your local league easily, they are the ones with a high robustness number.

Once this new software is in place the meaningfulness of the entire system as it applies to league players everywhere should be greatly enhanced. Right now there are just way too many players with "starter ratings" out there to properly handicap most events that include a large number of amateurs.

Hopefully the new Fargo league software will be ready to rock and roll in the near future. This will change things up for the better dramatically.

JC

cleary · Mar 22, 2017

I was a 455 and now I'm a 785 because I beat Shane Van Boening, Jung-Lin Chang, Jayson Shaw, Dennis Orcollo, Jeremy Jones, David Alcaide, Yu-Lung Chang, Alex Pagulayan, Ping-Chung Ko, Brandon Shuff, Abdullah Al Shammari, Pin-Yi Ko, Warren kiamco, Carlo Biado, Chia-Chen Hsieh, Mike Dechaine, Josh Roberts, Naoyuki Oi, Mark Gray, Daryl Peach, Francisco Sanchez-Ruiz, Imran Majid, Kai Lun Hsu, Justin Bergman, Kun Lin Wu, Radoslaw Babica, Nick Van Den Berg, Mika Immonen, Corey Deuel, Mario He, Jeremy Sossei, Eklent Kaci, Chin-Shung Yang, Darren Appleton, Jason Klatt, Ralf Souquet, Hao Xiang Han, Raj Hundal, R.J. Carmona, Thoresten Hohmann, Chezka Centeno, Miesko Fortunski, Bing Jie Chu, Maksim Dudanets, Ramil Gallego, Lee Vann Corteza, Robb Saez, Jani Siekken.... just to name a few.

BRussell · Mar 22, 2017

JC said:
Right now the league play isn't considered in the fargo ratings much. This is because the software currently used called leaguesys is cumbersome to extract data from for fargo. So if you only play in a league and never in any tournaments you will not have a meaningful fargo rating until the leaguesys software is replaced with something currently under beta testing by fargorate. Once this is done, league players everywhere will get connected to all the other players in the world via the players in their league who get out and play other competition. You can identify these player in your local league easily, they are the ones with a high robustness number.

Once this new software is in place the meaningfulness of the entire system as it applies to league players everywhere should be greatly enhanced. Right now there are just way too many players with "starter ratings" out there to properly handicap most events that include a large number of amateurs.

Hopefully the new Fargo league software will be ready to rock and roll in the near future. This will change things up for the better dramatically.

JC

I can vouch for this as it applies to my league. I have hundreds of BCA league games in the past several years, but 0 games in the system, despite league operators who know about and are interested in the ratings. I see that they're using their new League Management software in USAPL - hopefully it will be BCA-ready for next season.

Cornerman · Mar 22, 2017

JC said:
Right now the league play isn't considered in the fargo ratings much. This is because the software currently used called leaguesys is cumbersome to extract data from for fargo. So if you only play in a league and never in any tournaments you will not have a meaningful fargo rating until the leaguesys software is replaced with something currently under beta testing by fargorate. Once this is done, league players everywhere will get connected to all the other players in the world via the players in their league who get out and play other competition. You can identify these player in your local league easily, they are the ones with a high robustness number.

Once this new software is in place the meaningfulness of the entire system as it applies to league players everywhere should be greatly enhanced. Right now there are just way too many players with "starter ratings" out there to properly handicap most events that include a large number of amateurs.

Hopefully the new Fargo league software will be ready to rock and roll in the near future. This will change things up for the better dramatically.

JC

Thanks for the correction!

John Biddle · Mar 22, 2017

BRussell said:
I can vouch for this as it applies to my league. I have hundreds of BCA league games in the past several years, but 0 games in the system, despite league operators who know about and are interested in the ratings. I see that they're using their new League Management software in USAPL - hopefully it will be BCA-ready for next season.

OK, so BCAPL league matches are not automatically sent to FargoRate to be included in the ratings. Can they be sent in somehow, or are no BCAPL league matches being included?

Does anyone know if other leagues, in house or independent, can be included within the FargoRate system?

I checked a number of people (34) I know locally, and 10 had starter numbers but 0 robustness. Another 14 had robustness numbers <100 and the remaining 10 were people who play often in big pro/am tournaments. I see no evidence of people who play in leagues getting their numbers into FargoRate, but I hope it's happening. I read that USAPL is using it, which I think is great, but does anyone know for a fact that some other league's info is getting into FargoRate?

j_zippel · Mar 22, 2017

cleary said:
I was a 455 and now I'm a 785 because I beat Shane Van Boening, Jung-Lin Chang, Jayson Shaw, Dennis Orcollo, Jeremy Jones, David Alcaide, Yu-Lung Chang, Alex Pagulayan, Ping-Chung Ko, Brandon Shuff, Abdullah Al Shammari, Pin-Yi Ko, Warren kiamco, Carlo Biado, Chia-Chen Hsieh, Mike Dechaine, Josh Roberts, Naoyuki Oi, Mark Gray, Daryl Peach, Francisco Sanchez-Ruiz, Imran Majid, Kai Lun Hsu, Justin Bergman, Kun Lin Wu, Radoslaw Babica, Nick Van Den Berg, Mika Immonen, Corey Deuel, Mario He, Jeremy Sossei, Eklent Kaci, Chin-Shung Yang, Darren Appleton, Jason Klatt, Ralf Souquet, Hao Xiang Han, Raj Hundal, R.J. Carmona, Thoresten Hohmann, Chezka Centeno, Miesko Fortunski, Bing Jie Chu, Maksim Dudanets, Ramil Gallego, Lee Vann Corteza, Robb Saez, Jani Siekken.... just to name a few.

Dan Lewis is also a 455

Johnny Rosato · Mar 22, 2017

cleary said:
I was a 455 and now I'm a 785 because I beat Shane Van Boening, Jung-Lin Chang, Jayson Shaw, Dennis Orcollo, Jeremy Jones, David Alcaide, Yu-Lung Chang, Alex Pagulayan, Ping-Chung Ko, Brandon Shuff, Abdullah Al Shammari, Pin-Yi Ko, Warren kiamco, Carlo Biado, Chia-Chen Hsieh, Mike Dechaine, Josh Roberts, Naoyuki Oi, Mark Gray, Daryl Peach, Francisco Sanchez-Ruiz, Imran Majid, Kai Lun Hsu, Justin Bergman, Kun Lin Wu, Radoslaw Babica, Nick Van Den Berg, Mika Immonen, Corey Deuel, Mario He, Jeremy Sossei, Eklent Kaci, Chin-Shung Yang, Darren Appleton, Jason Klatt, Ralf Souquet, Hao Xiang Han, Raj Hundal, R.J. Carmona, Thoresten Hohmann, Chezka Centeno, Miesko Fortunski, Bing Jie Chu, Maksim Dudanets, Ramil Gallego, Lee Vann Corteza, Robb Saez, Jani Siekken.... just to name a few.

Have you beat justinb386 ???

justinb386 · Mar 22, 2017

JC said:
Right now the league play isn't considered in the fargo ratings much. This is because the software currently used called leaguesys is cumbersome to extract data from for fargo. So if you only play in a league and never in any tournaments you will not have a meaningful fargo rating until the leaguesys software is replaced with something currently under beta testing by fargorate. Once this is done, league players everywhere will get connected to all the other players in the world via the players in their league who get out and play other competition. You can identify these player in your local league easily, they are the ones with a high robustness number.

Once this new software is in place the meaningfulness of the entire system as it applies to league players everywhere should be greatly enhanced. Right now there are just way too many players with "starter ratings" out there to properly handicap most events that include a large number of amateurs.

Hopefully the new Fargo league software will be ready to rock and roll in the near future. This will change things up for the better dramatically.

JC

Okay, so it sounds like the Fargo rate system is currently mostly for just the players who play in the bigger known open tournaments. So, mostly pro's and semi pro's have an established Fargo rating, right?

justinb386 · Mar 22, 2017

cleary said:
I was a 455 and now I'm a 785 because I beat Shane Van Boening, Jung-Lin Chang, Jayson Shaw, Dennis Orcollo, Jeremy Jones, David Alcaide, Yu-Lung Chang, Alex Pagulayan, Ping-Chung Ko, Brandon Shuff, Abdullah Al Shammari, Pin-Yi Ko, Warren kiamco, Carlo Biado, Chia-Chen Hsieh, Mike Dechaine, Josh Roberts, Naoyuki Oi, Mark Gray, Daryl Peach, Francisco Sanchez-Ruiz, Imran Majid, Kai Lun Hsu, Justin Bergman, Kun Lin Wu, Radoslaw Babica, Nick Van Den Berg, Mika Immonen, Corey Deuel, Mario He, Jeremy Sossei, Eklent Kaci, Chin-Shung Yang, Darren Appleton, Jason Klatt, Ralf Souquet, Hao Xiang Han, Raj Hundal, R.J. Carmona, Thoresten Hohmann, Chezka Centeno, Miesko Fortunski, Bing Jie Chu, Maksim Dudanets, Ramil Gallego, Lee Vann Corteza, Robb Saez, Jani Siekken.... just to name a few.

Really? No kidding?

justinb386 · Mar 22, 2017

2twoball said:
Have you beat justinb386 ???

Lol, that is funny.

justinb386 · Mar 22, 2017

I wonder how strong an established rating over 700 is, and how many US players have an established Fargo rating of over 700.

I looked up Drake Niepoetter, and seen that he has an established rating of 708, with a robustness of 418.

So, I assume that he obtained that rating by playing in Open tournaments, that the Fargo rate system scored.

John Biddle · Mar 22, 2017

justinb386 said:
I wonder how strong an established rating over 700 is, and how many US players have an established Fargo rating of over 700.

I looked up Drake Niepoetter, and seen that he has an established rating of 708, with a robustness of 418.

So, I assume that he obtained that rating by playing in Open tournaments, that the Fargo rate system scored.

FargoRate is logarithmic. In comparing 2 players, for every 100 point difference in their ratings, the expected ratio of games won relative to the weaker player doubles.

Equally rated players play even (oddly enough). For a 100 point difference, whether 300-200 or 800-700, the stronger player is expected to win 2 games for each game won by the weaker player. For a 200 point difference, the ratio of strong to weak wins would be 4 to 1. For a 300 point difference it would be 8 to 1, etc.

JC · Mar 22, 2017

justinb386 said:
I wonder how strong an established rating over 700 is, and how many US players have an established Fargo rating of over 700.

I looked up Drake Niepoetter, and seen that he has an established rating of 708, with a robustness of 418.

So, I assume that he obtained that rating by playing in Open tournaments, that the Fargo rate system scored.

There's a lot of them and they play jam up. Including Drake no doubt.

JC

How does a player get an Established Fargo rating?

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