Interesting Situation - VNEA Rule Question

murdoc23

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I thought this was interesting and would appreciate any input you guys have.

It is the last match at league night.
Both players have had a few.
There are three balls on the table, one ball from each group, and the eight ball. All in the same general area.
Player Steve, from my team, plays a safety on Bill. (from the other team)
Bill scratches on his attempt.

Steve takes the cue ball in hand and lines up on Bill's ball. Everyone on our team look at each other in horror as Steve shoots Bill's ball in. No one says anything because we are not allowed to.

Bill does not call a foul. Now the other team is looking shocked as well.

Steve calls the eight ball, and pockets it.

Bill still does not call a foul.

Bill congratulates Steve, they shake hands, and both go sit down.

Steve obviously lost track of which group he had and and is stunned when we told him he shot in the wrong group.

Soooo, what happens? Does Steve win because Bill never called a foul, and accepted the outcome of the game? (They shook on it) Or does Bill win because Steve still has a ball from his original group on the table?
 

Blaine B.

Clueless
Silver Member
Necromancy!

This came up at the year end VNEA tournament this year on my gf's team that I don't play on.

Chancey is shooting and misses. Nemeses runs his balls out and shakes Chanceys hand quickly. Cue ball comes around 3 rails and falls in the same side pocket the 8 Ball did. Who wins, Chancey or Nemesis?

Ref ruled Nemesis wins because of the handshake. Was it the right call?
 

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
Necromancy!

This came up at the year end VNEA tournament this year on my gf's team that I don't play on.

Chancey is shooting and misses. Nemeses runs his balls out and shakes Chanceys hand quickly. Cue ball comes around 3 rails and falls in the same side pocket the 8 Ball did. Who wins, Chancey or Nemesis?

Ref ruled Nemesis wins because of the handshake. Was it the right call?

That is ridiculous, the hand shake happens regardless of who wins the game.

How could the referee determine the winner based on the hand shake. So by this logic the first to extend his hand is claiming victory and by accepting his hand the other loses? That is just backward, in my world the loser is the first to extend his hand.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Necromancy!

This came up at the year end VNEA tournament this year on my gf's team that I don't play on.

Chancey is shooting and misses. Nemeses runs his balls out and shakes Chanceys hand quickly. Cue ball comes around 3 rails and falls in the same side pocket the 8 Ball did. Who wins, Chancey or Nemesis?

Ref ruled Nemesis wins because of the handshake. Was it the right call?

While shaking the hand is a sign of a game over (and would be counted as a concession) because the guy that shot was the one that rushed to do it, I would call the game a loss for the player that scratched on the 8. It's a similar situation if one rushes to take a shot before a ref can be called to watch a hit.
 

Blaine B.

Clueless
Silver Member
I've been looking through the VNEA rules, I don't see where a handshake is a concession anywhere.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been looking through the VNEA rules, I don't see where a handshake is a concession anywhere.

It's a general rule of billiards, standing up from your chair to approach the table, putting away your cues, going up to shake hands, all considered concessions. If the rules don't have specific section about conceding games, they need some.
 

hurricane145

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
While shaking the hand is a sign of a game over (and would be counted as a concession) because the guy that shot was the one that rushed to do it, I would call the game a loss for the player that scratched on the 8. It's a similar situation if one rushes to take a shot before a ref can be called to watch a hit.

I agree. One could take the position that the guy that shot saw the scratch coming and knew he was dead meat so was conceding the game prematurely.

Short of that, if he was just trying to get a premature win, it is a cheap shot at a hustle attempt and he really deserves the game as a loss.

If you are on top of things, seeing the cue ball has not stopped and some potential for a scratch, you should ask him as he extends his hand for you to shake "are you conceding the game then"?
Not every player (maybe only a few) will be on the up and up with you about things. You have to keep your situational awareness high to avoid being hustled here and there.
In my early days of bar tournaments back in the early 80's I can still remember a few times of not paying attention that screwed me. I can remember what happened, where it was, and who it was I was playing.
Painful at the time, but they were some of the most important lessons learned about pool!!
 
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slim123

Active member
iF YOU ARE PLAYING APA THE RULE SPECIFICALLY STATES IF THE OPPONENT DOES NOT SEE YOU SHOT HIS BALL OR CALL A FOUL , ONCE YOU POCKET YOUR BALL, IT'S OVER. THIS IS A RULE THEY HAVE IN THERE FOR PEOPLE THAT GET TOO HAPPY AND DON'T PAY ATTENTION. IF YOU PUT YOUR BALL IN A POCKET TO BLOCK ME AND YOU TURN AROUND I SHOOT YOUR BALL IN, AFTER I POCKET MY BALL YOU CALL A FOUL IT IS NON EXISTENT, YOU HAVE TO CALL A FOUL AFTER HE SHOOTS YOUR BALL AND BEFORE HE POCKETS OR SHOOTS GHIS BALL
 
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