Not sure what question you are asking.
So what counts as a long run?
- Thread starter SARDiver
- Start date
Not sure what question you are asking.
What I'm trying to say is sure a 20+ run is a long run, but can you consistently do it in match play? As well as a 30+ with some frequency and a 50 ball high run in match play. I then would think you're on to something or am out of line with these standards? Which I'm not near right now but where I have my sights set.
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I don't think you are out of line. If you can do the above you'll probably be in the upper third of most league players, or so.
Where do I get a copy of that Danny Harriman run? I would send a check though, so hopefully that is not a problem.
Send a pm to dmgwalsh, Dennis Walsh.
I consider 15 balls a long run and 16 an extra long run
Straight pool is so hard to play
it looks easy but it's not
I find that it has hurt my game
I can not run balls and it discourages me
I still love to watch it
it looks like a piece of cake
also it tends to attract people who play good but don't gamble
If i lived near Ray martin ,I would take lessons and
I feel confident that I could run balls till the cow came home
Straight pool is so hard to play
it looks easy but it's not
I find that it has hurt my game
I can not run balls and it discourages me
I still love to watch it
it looks like a piece of cake
also it tends to attract people who play good but don't gamble
If i lived near Ray martin ,I would take lessons and
I feel confident that I could run balls till the cow came home
Nice run! How did it end? (The inevitable question). I know, you missed, right?
Long run
Back in the day 2 maybe 3racks if I was really in stroke.
Basically 14.1 helped my 1p game -
today played on a 4x 8 - someone left the balls
Racked so i thought let's try a break shot and run out all 15.
I don't know How Mosconi ran 526 on a small table - well I do know
He was a once in a lifetime talent.
As for me today - 13 balls and then a scratch -
Mcp
Back in the day 2 maybe 3racks if I was really in stroke.
Basically 14.1 helped my 1p game -
today played on a 4x 8 - someone left the balls
Racked so i thought let's try a break shot and run out all 15.
I don't know How Mosconi ran 526 on a small table - well I do know
He was a once in a lifetime talent.
As for me today - 13 balls and then a scratch -
Mcp
There were other great players besides mosconi, Lassiter, crane, Greenleaf, and Jack Breit (jersey red) to name a few. Buddy Evans was a great player i read bout back in willie's era, not allowed to compete at the world championships however due to the color of his skin.:-( Mosconi was the politicly correct figure, sponsored by Brunswick.
--
Yes I am aware of those players and many others who are / were greats of the game.
and legendary 14.1 players.
The point I was trying to make that on a 4x8 how little room you have to maneuver
and the notion of running hundreds of balls on a small table is a daunting task
to say the least.
Mcp.
John Schmidt's views (as of 2009) on the relative difficulty of 14.1 on 7-, 8-, and 9-footers:
-
Who am I to argue with Mr. 400.
I did like those stats you quoted from the DCC. after I read them
I didn't feel so bad about my 13 ball run and scratch.
Mcp
Yes more congestion, however the table they served him had 5" plus - drop pockets (sanded slate at edge of pocket). Mosconi's accomplishments on the 5x10 against seasoned competition are what should be noted. Promoters will actually set up an (exhibition) table to allow their player to stand out. 9 ft Table similar to mosconi's exhibition table at Q-masters in virginia. Slate has been sanded at edge of pocket to allow the ball to run down hill when in the jaws of pocket. The table in virginia and the mosconi exhibition table (from what I was told by a decent source) would be where you will see the politcly correct players going for their high run. So believe me if the ball is rolling down hill when near the pocket it makes up for the smaller space. This post is not in any way designed at belittling Willies game, he was a champion but I do not hear too much about how giant 5" + pockets were or whether he missed one right near the pocket - unless you talk to someone who was there. Good day.
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If anyone still thinks a smaller table is harder than a larger table, simply test it yourself. Take 25 innings on each table. Add up the total balls made. I'd give 2:1 on the cash the smaller table will be WAY easier. No one tries this, we all just sit here and mentally masterbate around the topic.
Use a 9' pro cut diamond. And a 7' pro cut diamond. That way it's an apples to apples comparison, and the only different is the bed size.
Ps, I've done this, shared my results many times. I'd bet large on it.
Use a 9' pro cut diamond. And a 7' pro cut diamond. That way it's an apples to apples comparison, and the only different is the bed size.
Ps, I've done this, shared my results many times. I'd bet large on it.
Here's a thread on this from iusedtoberich from 2013:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=344551
He compared results from 69 run attempts (innings) on each size table. On the 9-footer, he made 442 balls, for an average of 6.4 balls per attempt. On the 7-footer, he made 680 balls, for an average of 9.9 balls per attempt, or 54% more than on the 7-footer. His highest 5 runs in all 138 attempts were on the 7-footer. His conclusion: "A 7' table is significantly easier to play 14.1 on than a 9' table for a C+/B- speed player."
Wow. I must have missed that thread from iusedtoberich back in in 2013. Or forgot about it! What is even more impressive to me than the avg ball count is the high runs. 27 on the 9 footer with the next few at 16. The. Tow above forty on the seven footer with some thirties as well. Impressive for sure. Interesting as well!
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What does it matter when you have to play a pro in an amateur event? 2 years ago in 2015 I played in the Columbus Classic straight pool tournament ran by the Columbus Ohio Straight Pool League. Played in 2 'qualifiers'. Paid out $120 in entry fees. First one at Cushions they changed the format without an announcement, taking a vote on it or asking the players permission. You CANNOT by law change the format of a tournament. Once you advertise or print up flyers you absolutely cannot change the format. This tournament was advertised as to 100 points in the winner's bracket & to 75 in the loser's bracket. This is what we played at the 2nd 'qualifier' at Bankshots in Hilliard. At Cushions in my 1st match I found out that the format had been changed to 75 instead of 100. I found out that when my opponent announced he had 75 & had won [he was buddies with the Tournament Directors]. He took great delight in this knowing that I was in the dark. There was no announcement & no one had informed me that the format had changed. If I had known this initially I would have made it clear to all that this is illegal & that everyone had a right to ask for their entry fee back.
In addition they had advertised this straight pool tournament as an amateur tournament. It specifically stated on the website & the flyers 'NO PROS allowed' [I still have one of the flyers in my possession]. 'Top 125 BCA players ineligible' is also on this flyer. When people say "no pros" they mean no people that play at pro speed. I was very surprised to see some of the 'A+' players that were allowed to enter your so-called 'No pros' tournament. I also noticed that not a single person was turned away for any reason. No one was questioned about their amateur status.
Should top money-makers around the state be permitted to play in an amateur event? I spoke with several players who could not stop talking about how high ranked they were in the BCA & how much prize money they have won in the past few years. Some players I have personal knowledge of, such as Mike Dunn. He plays with a $10,000 cue stick. Andre out of Airway Billiards in Dayton, who I played at Cushions bragged about winning BCA championships & how much money he brings in on the pool table.
Players that have played in ANY pro event cannot participate in amateur events. I'll bet half of the 23 entries I saw in the 1st 2 Central Ohio events have played in a pro event at least once.
What about paid pool instructors playing in an amateur tournament? Fair or not? One was at Bankshots playing in this tournament, Don Reed the owner & house pro of Bankshots in Hilliard.
What about an 'A+' player hosting a tournament at their own establishment, and then playing in the tournament and mowing down the entries to take prize money or qualify for the final tournament? Is that fair? Playing on the very equipment that they own? Again Don Reed of Bankshots. Who also ran the show, picking out which table he would play on & which player he would play.
Many players have the misconception that no "pro" would ever play in an amateur tournament. Pros want to win money. Some are hard up for cash. When a tournament such as this with $500-$1000 pots & a final tournament with $5000 up for grabs, the pro players & 'A+' players will come out of the woodwork.
"What is a 'B' Player"? vs. "What is an 'A' Player?" Here's the A-D scale from Capelle's "Play Your Best Pool" (p.386):
D: A beginner or someone who plays so infrequently that their game remains in the beginner category.
C-: A below average player - this denotes a player with some recognizable skills who has definitely risen from the ranks of beginners. This is the first major milestone.
C: An average player - describes a large section of pool enthusiasts with experience whose games perhaps have leveled off, or that only play occasionally.
C+: Above average player - this group plays a very acceptable game of pool. They tend to dominate their level of competition.
B-: This is perhaps the biggest hurdle, as a good number of players peak at the C+ level. A B- is a good player who is quite capable of running a rack of Eight Ball or Nine Ball. However, they usually lack consistency.
B: A solid, advanced player - these players can run out fairly regularly, but lack a little consistency.
B+: Players at this level are often mistaken for lower level A players when they are playing well because they play a very tough, well-rounded game. They can run out from nearly anywhere at anytime.
A-: Another big jump is required to break through to the "A" level. This group of players could be classified as semi-pros or top amateurs. They are very skilled in nearly all facets of the game. They run out easily and very often.
A: A professional quality player who can compete with and occasionally beat all but the best players. Very skilled, solid, and consistent. Runs multiple racks quite often. Tough to beat.
A+: Touring Pro - the best. Skilled in every area of the game. Breaks and runs out multiple racks regularly. Definitely in a class by themselves.
The simple interpretation of the A-D rating system of players:
A: a good player capable of running most racks or playing lock-up safeties.
B: a decent player capable of running racks and playing effective safeties periodically.
C: an average player who doesn’t run racks very often and doesn’t have much of a safety game.
D: a novice player who makes many mistakes, can’t run even an easy rack, and never even considers playing safe.
Here is the kicker. The so-called 'qualifiers' did not matter. When the finals were held anyone with the $125 entry fee was allowed to participate. The 'qualifiers' were a sham. Many players in the finals did not qualify. So why play in a qualifier? They had the roster of winners of the qualifiers & the finals up on the internet previously. Also they had videos of the finals matches with the players names listed [looks like all of this has been taken down now]. All you had to do was match up the names & see anyone could enter the finals as long as they had the $$$. "Must play in a Qualifier to be eligible for state Finals" This is a direct quote from the flyer I have.
I have ran many tournaments myself. Always on the up & up. Not like this one.
In addition they had advertised this straight pool tournament as an amateur tournament. It specifically stated on the website & the flyers 'NO PROS allowed' [I still have one of the flyers in my possession]. 'Top 125 BCA players ineligible' is also on this flyer. When people say "no pros" they mean no people that play at pro speed. I was very surprised to see some of the 'A+' players that were allowed to enter your so-called 'No pros' tournament. I also noticed that not a single person was turned away for any reason. No one was questioned about their amateur status.
Should top money-makers around the state be permitted to play in an amateur event? I spoke with several players who could not stop talking about how high ranked they were in the BCA & how much prize money they have won in the past few years. Some players I have personal knowledge of, such as Mike Dunn. He plays with a $10,000 cue stick. Andre out of Airway Billiards in Dayton, who I played at Cushions bragged about winning BCA championships & how much money he brings in on the pool table.
Players that have played in ANY pro event cannot participate in amateur events. I'll bet half of the 23 entries I saw in the 1st 2 Central Ohio events have played in a pro event at least once.
What about paid pool instructors playing in an amateur tournament? Fair or not? One was at Bankshots playing in this tournament, Don Reed the owner & house pro of Bankshots in Hilliard.
What about an 'A+' player hosting a tournament at their own establishment, and then playing in the tournament and mowing down the entries to take prize money or qualify for the final tournament? Is that fair? Playing on the very equipment that they own? Again Don Reed of Bankshots. Who also ran the show, picking out which table he would play on & which player he would play.
Many players have the misconception that no "pro" would ever play in an amateur tournament. Pros want to win money. Some are hard up for cash. When a tournament such as this with $500-$1000 pots & a final tournament with $5000 up for grabs, the pro players & 'A+' players will come out of the woodwork.
"What is a 'B' Player"? vs. "What is an 'A' Player?" Here's the A-D scale from Capelle's "Play Your Best Pool" (p.386):
D: A beginner or someone who plays so infrequently that their game remains in the beginner category.
C-: A below average player - this denotes a player with some recognizable skills who has definitely risen from the ranks of beginners. This is the first major milestone.
C: An average player - describes a large section of pool enthusiasts with experience whose games perhaps have leveled off, or that only play occasionally.
C+: Above average player - this group plays a very acceptable game of pool. They tend to dominate their level of competition.
B-: This is perhaps the biggest hurdle, as a good number of players peak at the C+ level. A B- is a good player who is quite capable of running a rack of Eight Ball or Nine Ball. However, they usually lack consistency.
B: A solid, advanced player - these players can run out fairly regularly, but lack a little consistency.
B+: Players at this level are often mistaken for lower level A players when they are playing well because they play a very tough, well-rounded game. They can run out from nearly anywhere at anytime.
A-: Another big jump is required to break through to the "A" level. This group of players could be classified as semi-pros or top amateurs. They are very skilled in nearly all facets of the game. They run out easily and very often.
A: A professional quality player who can compete with and occasionally beat all but the best players. Very skilled, solid, and consistent. Runs multiple racks quite often. Tough to beat.
A+: Touring Pro - the best. Skilled in every area of the game. Breaks and runs out multiple racks regularly. Definitely in a class by themselves.
The simple interpretation of the A-D rating system of players:
A: a good player capable of running most racks or playing lock-up safeties.
B: a decent player capable of running racks and playing effective safeties periodically.
C: an average player who doesn’t run racks very often and doesn’t have much of a safety game.
D: a novice player who makes many mistakes, can’t run even an easy rack, and never even considers playing safe.
Here is the kicker. The so-called 'qualifiers' did not matter. When the finals were held anyone with the $125 entry fee was allowed to participate. The 'qualifiers' were a sham. Many players in the finals did not qualify. So why play in a qualifier? They had the roster of winners of the qualifiers & the finals up on the internet previously. Also they had videos of the finals matches with the players names listed [looks like all of this has been taken down now]. All you had to do was match up the names & see anyone could enter the finals as long as they had the $$$. "Must play in a Qualifier to be eligible for state Finals" This is a direct quote from the flyer I have.
I have ran many tournaments myself. Always on the up & up. Not like this one.
A yard stick for lunatic - one point of view. I try to stay away from rated tournaments and the "I wanna b the best player in the barr's. Better to practiceMostly billiards and ball in hand break shot 14.1. Can't run as of late due to calf injury, so trying to keep this long winded thread going. 